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Sarco new 98 Mauser Action
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 Posted: Thu Oct 16th, 2014 07:33 PM
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Rapier
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I have been following the progress of the 98 large ring action offered by Sarco for a couple of months now. Made in Belgium it has a bent bolt, M-70 style safety, integral drilled and tapped dove tail scope mounts, hinged floor plate and a Timney style trigger, all for $295. Now I am reading some not so good comments about the ads verbiage VS the actual action, like the dovetail slots are not SAE and the screw holes which are supposed to be 6x48 but may be metric. The scope rings that actually fit are sold by NEGW and cost $300-$400.

Does anyone know what is actually going on with this action?
Ed

Last edited on Thu Oct 16th, 2014 07:35 PM by Rapier



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 Posted: Mon Nov 3rd, 2014 07:11 PM
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huffmanite
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Mentioned the Sarco Dumbelein? 98 action to a fellow range member a month or so ago who'd asked me for a recommendation of a military mauser action to build on. He bought one and had it barreled.

Basically, he is quite happy with the Sarco action. Asked him this past weekend about the Sarco action, would he buy another one and etc. Heck yes was his answer. Only problem he mentioned was putting scope mounts on it....had to do some minor milling for the mounts he used. A shooting friend of his bought 2 of them.



 Posted: Mon Nov 3rd, 2014 10:02 PM
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Rapier
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Thanks Huff for the note. That was my thought from the get go, it would not be expensive to mill the mounts and the 6x48 oversized tap and screws should eliminate a misfit if a straight 6x48 tap would not fix the problem if in fact, there is one. Before I would pay $400 for a set of rings I would mill it to a stock 98 diameter or at least an equal ratio, front and rear, flat, on top.
Ed



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 Posted: Tue Nov 4th, 2014 06:59 PM
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BEAR
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I'd not expect an SAE thread on a European rifle.

The real problem is this is not a "Mauser" action. Mauser is a trademark for rifles. This is passing off (palming- off)an action as a Mauser. It is a Dumoulin action made in Belgium and might be a great action; but it is not a Mauser..

They should have said " mauser 98 style action". Although it doesn't look like a 98 to me. People do this all the time to sell stuff...they seem to think any action with two front locking lugs, cock on opening, with a stagger mag is a 98 Mauser

Mauser still sells rifles, this isn't one of theirs.

Last edited on Tue Nov 4th, 2014 07:14 PM by BEAR



 Posted: Tue Nov 4th, 2014 09:45 PM
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Rapier
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Lol, true, true. Just watch for the oncoming 68 Plymouth on the reverse side of that highway. Without the 98 we pretty much would not have a modern bolt action. :-)
Ed



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 Posted: Tue Nov 4th, 2014 11:35 PM
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8x32 screws are better anyway. A simple fix.



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 Posted: Thu Nov 6th, 2014 02:08 AM
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Remiel
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so what i am seeing is that this action would in fact be a good starting point for a custom 8x57 build i am planning after i finish the custom mosin i am working on now, i am concerned on the scope mount but if its not that difficult to work with it still beats tearing up a yugo m48, still may get a m48 due to my milsurpitus that i seem to have caught

Last edited on Thu Nov 6th, 2014 02:14 AM by Remiel



 Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2015 06:08 PM
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b16
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It's been years since I built up some old 98's. During WW2 the Germans built many 98's but as the war drug on they had them made at different manufacturing plants. Late in the war the quality began to drop drastically. But if you are looking for a excellent 98 action then find a Check Bruno. Those actions are double harden. Tricky to drill the receiver but with today's tooling makes it some what easier. Even had request to use the same 8mm barrels
They were so hard the only way to machine the steps off the military barrels eas to set up on a grinder and run slow while flooding it with coolant. I will say if you got the right bullet the were very accurate. But the made 2 different size bores wich took a different . I think the change was marked on the barrel with a J. I don't recall witch was bigger. They even got so desperate they making wooden bullets toward the end of the war. Bill:reloadandshoot:



 Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2015 07:21 PM
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swampshooter

 

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Iknew that the Japanese were making wooden bullets toward the end of WW11 but had not heard that about the Germans but don't doubt it at all. I have some Chinese rounds here with plastic bullets. Believe it or not they shoot pretty good out to 50 yds.



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 Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2015 09:55 PM
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Rapier
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Actually the wood bullets were made for indoor and short range practice. Everyonce in a while someone would get shot by one, but that probably was more a situation of students carrying ammo off the range in a pocket than being furnished the ammo for battle. Otherwise wood bullets make no sense unless you have nothing else to supply your troops with.
Ed



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 Posted: Tue Feb 24th, 2015 12:24 AM
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swampshooter

 

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I've been told that the Chinese plastic rounds were for practice also. They are 7.62x39.



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 Posted: Tue Feb 24th, 2015 12:53 AM
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Thanks for the heads up Rapier. Have a barrel I need an action for. Was going to use a 98 but a bud said it was a collector. Will just have to measure one of the others. That or buy something like this.



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 Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2016 03:07 AM
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Clark
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This is a Dumoulin I built with a Shilen #3 select match SS barrel, a Boyd's pro varmint stock, and 6.5-05 A square reamer.

I converted some steel weaver #45 and #54 mounts to be flat bottomed. There are lots of ways to solve this problem, and milling a curve flat is the most idiot proof.






 Posted: Wed Feb 3rd, 2016 05:55 PM
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huffmanite
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Update on my earlier comment about the SARCO 98 dubdleine actions.

Another member of range where I shoot, does a little gun smithing and he too got one of the actions. Can't give you any details, but basically he was disappointed in it, commenting they must be rejects Sarco is selling.



 Posted: Thu Feb 11th, 2016 12:19 AM
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tzillig
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Nice.



 Posted: Thu Feb 11th, 2016 01:44 AM
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BEAR
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this is an old thread.

But Sarco has gone bankrupt IIRC.



 Posted: Thu Feb 11th, 2016 02:10 AM
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http://www.stamplerauctions.com/auction/280410/samco-global-arms-firearms/

It does look like they went bankrupt and the assets are going on the auction block.

18 years ago they were a disorganized mess, and then the brains of the outfit, Glen, was killed in a shooting accident with a Lee Navy bolt.



 Posted: Sun Feb 26th, 2017 01:49 AM
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On the question if Dumoulin actions are Mausers. Yes, they are Mausers. Mausers were not just made by the Mauser plant in Oberndorf. They were produced by many German and foreighn arsenals. Erfurt, Danzig, Oberndorf, DWM, BRNO, FN, JP Sauer, and many others. I have many Mausers, including Dumoulins. The Dumoulin parts interchange with most of the pattern 98 actions. For the money I think they are a real deal. A 3 position safety alone runs upwards to $200. A replacement bottom metal unit runs upwards of $300 to $400. A trigger is usually $100 or so. To modify a military Mauser can add up. To scope a Dumoulin there are some methods on this thread that work, but Sunnyhill makes a nice set of detachable or fixed rings out of steel that fit the dovetails nicely. I would recommend them. The run around $200 or so, which is not out of sight for what you end up with. There is some talk about their origin. Some sources seem to imply they originate in China. Some think they are contracted by Dumoulin from China. Whatever the case, while there are a few rough spots 'under the stock line', most issues can be cleared up easily with a little handwork. For an easy and quick way to arive at a nice Mauser rifle they may be the best alternative. To take a 98'09 Mauser ($400 or nearabouts), Alter the bolt ($100 on up) add a 3 position safety and trigger and smooth and polish everything up and you're closing on a $1000 and you haven't added a barrel or stock yet.



 Posted: Sun Feb 26th, 2017 06:55 PM
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"Mauser still sells rifles, this isn't one of theirs."

Yes and they bastardized it by making it an expensive push feed. I have several riches built on genuine Mauser actions and they're damn fine rifles. I also have several rifles built on FN "Mauser" actions and as far as I'm concerned they're just as good or even better than some of the commercial genuine Mausers I've owned. So if I'm discussing my (for example) FN 7x57 rifle, I callout an FN Mauser as that's what it is. Picky picky picky. :wink:
Paul B.



 Posted: Sun Feb 26th, 2017 07:26 PM
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The phrase "Mauser Type" is often used of anything that has dual opposed locking lugs near the breach. I agree that this is a very loose use of the term Mauser. Mauser's most important feature, the Claw Extractor is omitted on many of these actions and defeats the design Paul Mauser perfected. The Dumoulin actions are true Mausers in that they do have the claw extractor and mechanical ejector. Virtually all the qualities that made the 98 famous. Ludwig Loewe and company purchased the Mauser plant and Paul stayed on as chief engineer til his death. Ludwig Loewe also owned many other plants including DWM. They apparently interchanged contracts and likely material and personel between these plants. That's why some contract Mausers are sometimes found marked "Deutche Waffen Munitionfabriken - Oberndorf" instead of "Berlin" where the DWM plant proper resided. But virtually all of those Mausers are of similar or the same quality. Even the BRNO Mausers, which matched the German Oberndorfs in quality and had the advantage of most of their production occuring after advancements in metalurgy in the late 20's are highly desirable for making custom rifles. A VZ24 or it's kindred are equal to Oberndorf 98's for conversion in every way. I wouldn't hesitate to use any of these quality actions, whether they be Oberndorf, Steyr, DWM, BRNO, JP Sauer, FN or Radom. Some of the Radom and BRNO VZ32's were late metalurgy and were small ring but did not have the cut out on the left receiver wall like the VZ33 and G33/40's that require a faux ejection port to be cut into the stock to make it look nice. They make a pretty straight and attractive line on the stock along the left receiver. There are certainly some junker 98's out there. Late production German actions show Lathe turning on the receiver ring and the bolt guide rib is often omitted. the bolts also show coarse lathe turning on the body. These actions often have poor heat treatment and DeHaas mentioned some had shattered when dropped on the shop floor. Not a good quality for a high intensity cartridge. Kuhnhausen's book, probably the best 'safe' guide to gunsmithing Mauser's available warns of anything after 1942 or so. This is when the bombing by the Eight Air Force became most intense and remained that way to the end of the war. It is good not to take just anything and slap it together. The condition of 'tolerance accumulation' can make some parts from different plants not work well together. But these problems can be solved. A good quality 98 can serve as a good, even best starting point for a custom rifle. No actions has all the qualities of a good 98 and most have much less. From safety in handling gas to reliability of feeding, the 98 is hard to beat. One additonal point: There are Mausers being made now in Germany and here in the US (Reimer Johansen / Blaser / Granite Mountain / Saterlee) that are certainly as good or better than anything that came out of the Oberndorf plant but using the most modern of Steels and production. Most 98's when lab tested show a metalurgy closest to 1018 steel. This is on the high end low carbon to low end high carbon. The steels used by todays producers of Mausers are much superior.



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