The Handloaders Bench Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register
The Handloaders Bench > Gun Smithing > Smithing > Stock making question?

Welcome to HandloadersBench.com. You will receive a activation email with a link in it to activate your account. If you don't receive the email check your spam or junk folders. Email servers look at our email as spam. Our mission here is to provide a place for those interested in the hobby of Reloading Ammunition. We offer a series of forums where they can ask questions, share answers, and highlight successes & failures so that others can learn. If you join our site please be aware that front porch rules apply. If you wouldn't say it on your front porch with grandma, your pastor and your 12 year old niece present it doesn't belong here. The Golden Rule applies. If you can live within those guidelines, Welcome Aboard! Spammers, trolls, and flamers will not last long here, your time would be better spent looking for a board where those traits are acceptable. HB Administration

Stock making question?
 Moderated by: Poacher, DesertMarine Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2   
 New Topic   Reply   Printer Friendly 
 Rating:  Rating
AuthorPost
 Posted: Fri Jan 27th, 2017 12:28 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
21st Post
ghrit



Joined: Fri Apr 14th, 2006
Location: Endless Mountains, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 3775
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: none
My favorite chambering is:: 2-3/4 dram equiv, 1 OZ, 7-1/2 trap
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

You need to get them up off the ground and rough sawn (full length) and the end grain sealed pretty quick. It never ceases to amaze me how fast bugs can move. Good lookin' logs, the sawyer will be delighted to work them. The core on the bottom one is already going to make a nice hot fire, but the rest should be fine.

How long have they been down?



____________________
-Remote locations are cheap insurance.
-There are two kinds of ships: Submarines and targets


 Posted: Fri Jan 27th, 2017 12:53 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
22nd Post
Snuffy
Senior Member


Joined: Sun Dec 16th, 2012
Location: Arkansas USA
Posts: 1397
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 30-06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

They have been down about 30 days. He had some other tree work being done and had them lay these down for him. They stood dead for about two years is what he told me. We have had some pretty bad droughts off and on for the last 10 or so years. We have lost quite a few big trees the last couple of years.

I'm going to get them on the bed of the mill in a day or two and go to work on them.



____________________
Not as Lean, Not as Mean, but still a Marine!

If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. -- Thomas Paine




 Posted: Fri Jan 27th, 2017 01:38 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
23rd Post
Rockydog



Joined: Tue Jul 26th, 2005
Location: 160 Miles SW Of The Frozen Tundra, Wisconsin USA
Posts: 15202
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 8mm Mauser
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I used to work cutting walnut trees for sale. This is very demanding job requiring some concentration and a bit of courage. If you note the last pic in Snuffy's post you will see a strip of uncut wood sticking out of the face of the stump. Walnut often has straight, fine grain and the wood will pull length wise if given the opportunity, as did this log, luckily, pulling the grain from the stump. If it pulls the grain from the log it can ruin the log. This one also pulled a short section. I have seen unproperly cut walnut leave a 4 foot long spear on the stump ruining a walnut veneer log worth 4 figures. Because it was cut with a notch and backside cut it fell before the final cut was completed and pulled the spear out of the center of the log.

Warning: I'll share how to do it but...Don't try this unless you damn well know what you are doing with a chain saw!

To cut walnut you need a very sharp chain and a saw with a fairly fast chain speed. The old McCulloch gear drives etc will work but the slow chain speed increases the risk a bit. The best saws are modern Stihl, Huskys, or Jonsruds.

1. Assess the tree to see what direction it is leaning and check for large limbs that may make it roll in one direction or another as it starts to fall. You'll want to start your cut as close to the ground as possible on the side the tree is leaning toward.

2. Assess the area around the stump. Clean any fallen limbs, brush or trip hazards away from the tree in a 15' circle minimum. Look at the ground near the stump and take into account the design of your saw. Can you remove some dirt around the base to get your saw blade closer to the ground? Mere inches mean big $$ in veneer grade logs.

3. Put your safety glasses, hearing protection, and other safety gear on. Make sure that your saw is full of gas and oil and is dependable. A saw that stops while in the cut is a danger.

4 Begin cutting on the side where you think the tree will fall. The bar must be long enough the cut completely across the tree. The cut should be as level as possible in both directions.

5. Here's where it begins to get tough. Keep cutting across the stump. NO NOTCH. After you get 1/2 way across begin the watch the crack at the start of the cut. At some point between 1/2 and 2/3 through the tree, that crack will start to close as the weight of the tree gets heavier than the uncut wood can take. IMMEDIATELY when that crack starts to close rip your saw blade out of the tree endwise. If you try to pull it back out of the crack the way you cut in you will pinch the saw and have one heck of a time getting it out. Again, pull the running saw out endways toward you. The timing has to be perfect. As the saw comes out the crack will close and all of the weight of the tree will rest on the edge of the crack right where you started the cut.

6. Shut the saw off, sit down, and rest a minute. Then fire up the saw and carefully, watching for kick back, insert the tip of the saw endwise back into the crack. Push the running saw back into the spot you pulled it out of, right along the uncut portion. You will have no pinch if the crack has closed at the close of the initial cut. The saw will simply cut a new void in the log the thickness of the blade.

7. Here's the dangerous part. Rev up the saw and finish the cut through the tree with no stoppage or hesitation. Because of all the pressure on the edge of the cut, the tree may "jump" off the stump. Normally it will fall toward the lean. I may, however, roll in one direction or another if there is a big limb away from the leaning side etc. Your best place to be at this time is right next to the tree. If it starts in your direction simply walk around it to the other side. Calmness and clear thinking removes much of the danger.

You will not ruin a walnut log if you cut them this way but there is risk. I once had one that I cut off that was so balanced that it would not fall. We had to borrow log chains from enough neighbors to jerk it off the stump with out hitting the tractor if it fell our way. I was about 20 years old when I learned to cut walnut this way. 40 years later I wouldn't trust my legs enough to do this.

Again, Don't try this unless you have a bunch of saw experience behind you. This will be at your own risk. RD



____________________
“Those that beat their rifles into plow shares will plow for those who didn’t”. Jefferson

Light hunting rifles; Gravity is permanent, recoil is temporary.Your Choice


 Posted: Fri Jan 27th, 2017 03:35 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
24th Post
ghrit



Joined: Fri Apr 14th, 2006
Location: Endless Mountains, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 3775
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: none
My favorite chambering is:: 2-3/4 dram equiv, 1 OZ, 7-1/2 trap
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Snuffy wrote: They have been down about 30 days. He had some other tree work being done and had them lay these down for him. They stood dead for about two years is what he told me. We have had some pretty bad droughts off and on for the last 10 or so years. We have lost quite a few big trees the last couple of years.

I'm going to get them on the bed of the mill in a day or two and go to work on them.
Standing dead that long gives you a jump on drying.  Sorta thought that might be the case with all the bark damage and missing.  I'd still be inclined to get them to the mill sooner than later.  Betcha Guy has some more good info.  Any idea what killed them?



____________________
-Remote locations are cheap insurance.
-There are two kinds of ships: Submarines and targets


 Posted: Fri Jan 27th, 2017 10:26 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
25th Post
Snuffy
Senior Member


Joined: Sun Dec 16th, 2012
Location: Arkansas USA
Posts: 1397
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 30-06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

RD, thanks for taking the time to put that last post of yours together. I don't plan on felling any veneer quality trees anytime soon, but you never know. A lot of good info there.



____________________
Not as Lean, Not as Mean, but still a Marine!

If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. -- Thomas Paine




 Posted: Fri Jan 27th, 2017 10:30 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
26th Post
Snuffy
Senior Member


Joined: Sun Dec 16th, 2012
Location: Arkansas USA
Posts: 1397
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 30-06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

ghirt wrote:
Any idea what killed them?


Best we can figure is drought.



____________________
Not as Lean, Not as Mean, but still a Marine!

If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. -- Thomas Paine




 Posted: Fri Jan 27th, 2017 07:27 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
27th Post
CajunMOA
Full Member
 

Joined: Sat Oct 17th, 2015
Location:  
Posts: 182
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: .300 Win Mag
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I only have experience with black walnut in KY (often referred to as swamp walnut). I have found the best figure in the base of the tree. Some loggers we dealt with would actually excavate around the tree to harvest as much length as they could . The best figure was often in the base of the tree. As others have pointed out, the upper area where large branching begins was also a fertile area for good figure.

We had it slabbed it 2.5" thick. We sought widest (avoiding sap wood), longest slabs they could cut 2.5" thick. Slabs only at this point, not in the shape of a stock blank.

Others may have more experience as to how long to allow the slabs to dry. We always allowed the slabs to dry in our basement for ~ 5 yrs, as the slabs will split as they dry.

Once dry, make a Plexiglas stock pattern. The dimensions provided in several posts seem reasonable, but be sure you consider any nuances of the stock design you wish (i.e.: thumb-hole, unusual butt offset,...).

Dampen the slabs with a wet sponge or rag. Determine the best or desired grain and be sure to inspect both sides of the slabs for cracks, knot holes, or other imperfections.

I always opted to have the best figure on the cheek piece side of the stock.

The Plexiglass pattern is a huge help in allowing you to see the grain as you move the pattern around. When you have selected the optimum location for your blank, trace the outline of the pattern with a dark marker/Sharpie.

If you are seeking the most grain figure, it will reduce the number of blanks you can make from each slab. With the price of blanks, there is a trade off of quantity over beauty to consider.

Rev up your ban saw and cut your blanks.

Hope this helps. Enjoy!



 Posted: Fri Jan 27th, 2017 07:33 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
28th Post
CajunMOA
Full Member
 

Joined: Sat Oct 17th, 2015
Location:  
Posts: 182
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: .300 Win Mag
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

PS:

If you desire tight grain to better handle heavy recoil consider a different species of walnut. I used a plain Jane, very densely grained piece of French Walnut for my .458 Win Mag. The cost was not prohibitive, as the cost driver on blanks is the figure. Thus straight grain blanks are at the lowest end of the price range for a given species.



 Posted: Sat Jan 28th, 2017 01:44 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
29th Post
Thecyberguy
Master Handloader


Joined: Sat Aug 1st, 2009
Location: In The Afternoon Shadow Of MTWashington, Maine USA
Posts: 4192
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: The one in my hands at the that moment.
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I have no idea on dead standing. In my neck of the woods the boring insects get them and make them not worth sawing.

Simplified: You have two kinds of moisture in wood.

You have bound water and free water. Free water is the moisture between the cells. Bound water is the moisture in the cell wall.

Free water leaves the wood quickly from the ends and the flat surfaces. That is what causes the lumber to check as explained in my earlier post.

Bound water , the majority of which doesn't leave until the free water is at a lower percentage that the bound water, leaves more slowly. The walls of the wood fiber will pass the water from the wetter ones to the dryer ones and on out to the surface. It usually takes some heat to move it more quickly than by normal natural process.

Now when you have dead standing, I assume the free water has left at a natural rate, but slowly because the bark would slow it down. At some point the cell walls will be "wetter" than the space between the cells and moisture will start leaving the cells.

Now, remember that free water travels out much quicker than bound water. Once the moisture has left the cell walls it is a slow process to get it back in. As a cell takes on moisture, it swells closing off the "tubes" that the free water travels and thus nearly stopping the flow of free water. That means the only way to wet the wood is from cell to cell and that is a slow process. The wood will take on free water for a certain depth and then slow down. Good news is that water it takes on after being dry comes back out relatively quickly.

Point being if a tree is standing dead long enough it dries. Even if it gets rained on, it will not return to the moisture content it was when green which means the drying process is much quicker (I would think). I would also think that most of the checking would have already taken place. That in its own rite can be an issue. If it dried and cracked, when it gets re-wet the outer fibers swell back up and close the crack only to have it open back up when the wood is re-dried.

But, like I said I never dealt with dead wood.
Please show photos as you go with the project no mater the results.
Have a good 'un TCG



____________________
Support our troops....they are someone's kids.

Remember..."No matter where you go,~ there you are!"


 Posted: Sat Jan 28th, 2017 10:39 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
30th Post
Snuffy
Senior Member


Joined: Sun Dec 16th, 2012
Location: Arkansas USA
Posts: 1397
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 30-06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I'll be posting photos TCG. Didn't get around to sawing today, maybe tomorrow.



____________________
Not as Lean, Not as Mean, but still a Marine!

If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. -- Thomas Paine




 Posted: Thu Feb 2nd, 2017 01:04 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
31st Post
Snuffy
Senior Member


Joined: Sun Dec 16th, 2012
Location: Arkansas USA
Posts: 1397
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 30-06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Did a little sawing today. Didn't find a stock yet and may not. There is so much doty wood on the outside of these logs there is not much good wood on the inside. I still have the three biggest logs to saw, but I still gotta get my buddies mantles out of them first. The two smallest logs I sawed into cants and then sawed those up into 1" stickers. The next log I sawed three sides then slabed it into 1" boards. The biggest log I sawed today did make a 12" cant, but still had some doty wood on the corners. Could have possibly cut his mantles out of it, but would of been iffy. I just flat sawed 1x12's out of it, figured he could cut them to what ever he wants on his table saw.

Here are some pics of the wood. Some of it looks pretty nice to me, not for a stock, but maybe a table top.



These are the boards with 1 live edge. I think these may end up going to the High School here. They would make good project boards for the Ag Dept.


Here is the 12x12 cant. I haven't cut the 4th side yet, in the pic. Notice the doty wood on the corners.

And this Dude right here cost me a blade! Then I hit it again with my chainsaw trying to get the bandsaw out! I don't know if you guys can make it out, but I'm about 99% sure it's a cotton picker spindle.



____________________
Not as Lean, Not as Mean, but still a Marine!

If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. -- Thomas Paine




 Posted: Thu Feb 2nd, 2017 01:01 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
32nd Post
olyeller
Master Handloader


Joined: Sun Nov 22nd, 2009
Location: Just West Of Bruzdenbleedin, Texas USA
Posts: 4086
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 270Win ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Well, cotton pickin' luck to hit that cotton pickin' thing!  :sofa:

That's some purty wood. If you can't find a stock, you can make some purties for Mrs Snuffy. :wink:



____________________
"Wimachtendienk, Wingolauchsik, Witahemui”

He who knows not and knows not that he knows not, is a fool.
He who knows not and knows he knows not is wise.


 Posted: Thu Feb 2nd, 2017 05:39 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
33rd Post
ghrit



Joined: Fri Apr 14th, 2006
Location: Endless Mountains, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 3775
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: none
My favorite chambering is:: 2-3/4 dram equiv, 1 OZ, 7-1/2 trap
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

olyeller wrote:

That's some purty wood. If you can't find a stock, you can make some purties for Mrs Snuffy. :wink:
Or a green giant sock full of grip panels.



____________________
-Remote locations are cheap insurance.
-There are two kinds of ships: Submarines and targets


 Posted: Thu Feb 2nd, 2017 09:19 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
34th Post
Snuffy
Senior Member


Joined: Sun Dec 16th, 2012
Location: Arkansas USA
Posts: 1397
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 30-06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

ghrit wrote:
olyeller wrote:

That's some purty wood. If you can't find a stock, you can make some purties for Mrs Snuffy. :wink:
Or a green giant sock full of grip panels.


Gonna be lots of grip panels and knife scales in the "not so scrap" pile as well.
Didn't do any sawing today, drizzling rain and 20 mph wind.:pissed:



____________________
Not as Lean, Not as Mean, but still a Marine!

If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. -- Thomas Paine




 Posted: Thu Feb 2nd, 2017 11:40 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
35th Post
Big Joe
Forum Benefactor


Joined: Thu Jul 4th, 2013
Location: Oklahoma USA
Posts: 578
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 222 and 308 in rifles 44mag and 45acp in handguns ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

If the scrap pile looks as good as the lumber you may have a few PMs, at least one for sure. Got a large saw blade waiting to meet the plasma cutter now. :123:



 Posted: Thu Feb 2nd, 2017 11:57 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
36th Post
Snuffy
Senior Member


Joined: Sun Dec 16th, 2012
Location: Arkansas USA
Posts: 1397
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 30-06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I plan on bringing some to B'ridge BigJoe. I'll fix you up.:thumbs:



____________________
Not as Lean, Not as Mean, but still a Marine!

If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. -- Thomas Paine




 Posted: Sat Feb 4th, 2017 01:11 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
37th Post
Snuffy
Senior Member


Joined: Sun Dec 16th, 2012
Location: Arkansas USA
Posts: 1397
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 30-06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Well it took all the logs I had just to get my buddies mantles cut.:sad: But there is lots of left overs for pistol grips and knife scales. I've still got a lot of resawing to do, gonna be a lot of 1" boards for table tops. Sawed a lot of the big limbs into 1" thick rounds, some real pretty wood in them. Usually I would just take my chainsaw and cut these out of the way, but figured I better get all I could out of these.

Here's a 2x12 and a 3 1/2x 12 Mantle. Note the blue spots about a third of the way from the closest end.


Yep! Nails! Got another Blade:sad: My buddy owes me 3-30 packs so far, for the hardware.


Here's one of the big limbs I cut into rounds.


As the boards laid out in the sun, the blue from the hardware really started to stand out.


This is a 6 1/2x14 mantle I cut. I like it better than the 3", but that's what my buddy wanted.


Just as I suspected earlier. It was a cotton picker spindle.



These things are harder than Hillary's heart, but you can see how the bandsaw blade did cut into it.



____________________
Not as Lean, Not as Mean, but still a Marine!

If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. -- Thomas Paine




 Posted: Sat Feb 4th, 2017 04:58 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
38th Post
Rockydog



Joined: Tue Jul 26th, 2005
Location: 160 Miles SW Of The Frozen Tundra, Wisconsin USA
Posts: 15202
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 8mm Mauser
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I've seen a set of 6 Foot circular saw insert teeth absolutely destroyed twice over the years. Once with a railroad spike and once with a horseshoe. The railroad spike was in the heart of a 2 foot diameter red oak log growing about 10 miles from a railroad in any direction. The horseshoe was in the crotch structure of another red oak. Someone must have stashed it there when a horse threw a shoe and never took it with them later. Ugly, ugly mess. RD



____________________
“Those that beat their rifles into plow shares will plow for those who didn’t”. Jefferson

Light hunting rifles; Gravity is permanent, recoil is temporary.Your Choice


 Current time is 07:05 AMPage:  First Page Previous Page  1  2   
The Handloaders Bench > Gun Smithing > Smithing > Stock making question?
Top




UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.2007 seconds (11% database + 89% PHP). 30 queries executed.