The Handloaders Bench Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register

Welcome to HandloadersBench.com. You will receive a activation email with a link in it to activate your account. If you don't receive the email check your spam or junk folders. Email servers look at our email as spam. Our mission here is to provide a place for those interested in the hobby of Reloading Ammunition. We offer a series of forums where they can ask questions, share answers, and highlight successes & failures so that others can learn. If you join our site please be aware that front porch rules apply. If you wouldn't say it on your front porch with grandma, your pastor and your 12 year old niece present it doesn't belong here. The Golden Rule applies. If you can live within those guidelines, Welcome Aboard! Spammers, trolls, and flamers will not last long here, your time would be better spent looking for a board where those traits are acceptable. HB Administration

Range report of 284 barrel
 Moderated by: WildBill
 New Topic   Reply   Printer Friendly 
 Rate Topic 
AuthorPost
 Posted: Tue Nov 19th, 2013 02:12 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
1st Post
swampshooter

 

Joined: Sun Aug 3rd, 2008
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 7077
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: .204, 284, 7RM, 30/06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I've shot 10, 5-shot groups at 100 yds. in the past two days with the new 284 Bartlein barrel. Testing 180 gr. Sie. MK with H-4831sc powder. I've also been chronographing and miking cases for pressure indications. Most of the groups have been around 1/2 moa. Only one group has been over .590. I started at 49 grs. and went to 55 grs. 55 grs. was my largest group, .896, and started to show signs of excessive pressure.
Most promising appears to be 54 grs. 5-shot group was .324" at 100 yds. Velocity was 2857 fps. I'll shoot some more 5-shot groups Wednesday at 100 & 300 yds. to verify and tweak what I've already developed. I haven't measured, weighed and sorted brass or bullets yet but will do so before testing at 300 yds. I had two groups with extremely tight 4-shot knots. .090 and .225 but each had a flier that opened the group up to about 1/2". Possibly sorting bullets and brass will eliminate or minimize those fliers. Looks good so far though.
:thumbs::thumbs:



____________________
NRA Endowment member
NRA Range Technical Team Advisor
TSRA member
NRA certified pistol coach-Retired
NRA classified Master, F-Class mid-range
Velocity is like a new car, always losing value
BC is like diamonds, maintaining value forever


 Posted: Tue Nov 19th, 2013 02:27 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
2nd Post
12semi
Senior Member


Joined: Mon May 2nd, 2011
Location: Cordova, Tennessee USA
Posts: 3634
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 300 Win Mag ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Good shooting SwampShooter, so far or not, darn good shooting.    I wonder, the overpressure signs were a cupped and flattened primer? 

 



 Posted: Tue Nov 19th, 2013 02:39 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
3rd Post
swampshooter

 

Joined: Sun Aug 3rd, 2008
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 7077
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: .204, 284, 7RM, 30/06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Pressure signs were increased pressure needed to open action compared to previous loads. Web expansion was still .001 like it had been, but this might be limited by a snug chamber. Primer was slightly flat and cratered all the way around. It just all added up to me that I was slightly above maximum pressure. Nothing severe, but more pressure than I like.



____________________
NRA Endowment member
NRA Range Technical Team Advisor
TSRA member
NRA certified pistol coach-Retired
NRA classified Master, F-Class mid-range
Velocity is like a new car, always losing value
BC is like diamonds, maintaining value forever


 Posted: Tue Nov 19th, 2013 05:18 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
4th Post
DesertMarine



Joined: Wed Nov 12th, 2008
Location: New Mexico USA
Posts: 5321
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 308 Winchester ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Sounds good. I have the same problem with my 284 in that there is always a flyer opening up group, usually first round. Working on finding reason for it.
Rifle should get better.

Did you do barrel break-in? I did not. Followed Gale McMillan' philosophy. Brux said it was up to me.



____________________
"The United States Marine Corps is a drug and I am a recovering addict."

"American by birthright… U.S. MARINE by the Grace of GOD!"

"And on the 8th day God created Marines and like fish, we came from the sea!"


 Posted: Tue Nov 19th, 2013 06:52 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
5th Post
swampshooter

 

Joined: Sun Aug 3rd, 2008
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 7077
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: .204, 284, 7RM, 30/06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I'm not always getting a flier. One group was .324" and another .440".
I tried to break my barrel in. Fired one shot and cleaned with copper solvent. No sign of any copper. Fired three shots and cleaned, No copper. Fired five shots and cleaned, No copper. Fired twenty shots and cleaned, still No copper. I gave up and just shot it. I have a match coming up Dec. 7, probably fire 53 rounds. I'll check carefully when I clean after the match.



____________________
NRA Endowment member
NRA Range Technical Team Advisor
TSRA member
NRA certified pistol coach-Retired
NRA classified Master, F-Class mid-range
Velocity is like a new car, always losing value
BC is like diamonds, maintaining value forever


 Posted: Sun Apr 20th, 2014 08:58 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
6th Post
Arrowsmith
Full Member


Joined: Wed Jan 8th, 2014
Location: Western, New York USA
Posts: 105
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 22-250
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Swampshooter, You seem to have your shootin irons dialed in pretty well. I recently had some respectable .6 and .7ish groups in my 22-250 with no special considerations taken with regard to sorting brass, weighing bullets, or trickle charging and weighing powder for each round. I fired 8 groups of 6 rounds each over the course of several hours on Saturday and they all went under .75, but no .50 groups. In your opinion, is sorting, weighing, etc. next, or do I start with OAl which I haven't done either?



 Posted: Sun Apr 20th, 2014 10:13 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
7th Post
swampshooter

 

Joined: Sun Aug 3rd, 2008
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 7077
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: .204, 284, 7RM, 30/06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Arrowsmith, just for the knowledge gained I would suggest tweeking your OAL and primer selection. Then sorting your brass and finally sorting your bullets. Then you can decide which processes are worthwhile to you.
While rifle accuracy is all about consistency, there is a point of diminishing returns. How much accuracy do you need? How much time are you willing to spend doing mundane procedures like turning case necks and uniforming primer pockets, measuring and sorting cases and bullets, etc. If you and your rifle can readily achieve 3/4 moa groups how much trouble are you willing to go to, in order to shave another .010 moa off of your groups.
I'm getting some rifles ready to shoot at long range next week-end. I'm taking some short cuts because nobody is going to be scoring our targets anyway. 3/4 moa is all I need for next week-end.



____________________
NRA Endowment member
NRA Range Technical Team Advisor
TSRA member
NRA certified pistol coach-Retired
NRA classified Master, F-Class mid-range
Velocity is like a new car, always losing value
BC is like diamonds, maintaining value forever


 Posted: Mon Apr 21st, 2014 12:35 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
8th Post
Arrowsmith
Full Member


Joined: Wed Jan 8th, 2014
Location: Western, New York USA
Posts: 105
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 22-250
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Swampshooter, OK I read you. So, Just for knowledge gained let me ask, how do I start to tweak OAL (ie. longer or short, and how much to start?), and when you say primer selection, do you mean brand? I didn't realize primers had that much affect. Finally, getting to your point of how much accuracy do you need, well, 1/2" would make me happy, but I have no desire to turn case necks or uniform primer pockets. I would be willing to tweek OAL, and if primers really matter that much, I would be "all in" there. How about the powder measure? Should I weigh each and every charge, and does .1 or .2 of a grain really have that much affect on groups out of a 22-250 at 100 yards? Looking to get the most bang for the buck without getting neurotic about it. Thanks for the input.



 Posted: Mon Apr 21st, 2014 02:54 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
9th Post
swampshooter

 

Joined: Sun Aug 3rd, 2008
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 7077
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: .204, 284, 7RM, 30/06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Start at the end and go backwards. Your measured, thrown charges should be within .1 gr. That will not affect accuracy very much until you get to long range. IE; over 500 yds. Primers can make a huge difference. Once you've settled on a load it is always a good idea to test several other brands of primers. When testing OAL I always try 5 different lengths. Starting next to the lands I go back .010" at a time until I get to .050" off the lands. If my pressures are already at maximum levels I won't go closer than .005" off the lands. If your load was worked up with standard primers I would only test other standard primers and avoid magnum primers.



____________________
NRA Endowment member
NRA Range Technical Team Advisor
TSRA member
NRA certified pistol coach-Retired
NRA classified Master, F-Class mid-range
Velocity is like a new car, always losing value
BC is like diamonds, maintaining value forever


 Posted: Mon Apr 21st, 2014 03:58 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
10th Post
Rockydog



Joined: Tue Jul 26th, 2005
Location: 160 Miles SW Of The Frozen Tundra, Wisconsin USA
Posts: 15221
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 8mm Mauser
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Arrowsmith, From a different site here are some photos that might explain why changing primers can be a big deal. RD

http://www.6mmbr.com/PrimerPix.html



____________________
“Those that beat their rifles into plow shares will plow for those who didn’t”. Jefferson

Light hunting rifles; Gravity is permanent, recoil is temporary.Your Choice


 Posted: Mon Apr 21st, 2014 11:09 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
11th Post
Arrowsmith
Full Member


Joined: Wed Jan 8th, 2014
Location: Western, New York USA
Posts: 105
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 22-250
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Rocky, wow! So, based on those pics, what do you see, and what do you want to see in a primer? Simplistically it would seem that I would want the largest ignition coupled with the longest forward shower, but it can't be that simple, could it. I also notice that based on the ruler behind the primer blast, the federal 210 has a nice even blast that appears would travel the length of most standard cases.Could that be a good thing? What do you take from these photos, and have you made any changes because of them? Thanks, Dave



 Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2014 01:37 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
12th Post
Rockydog



Joined: Tue Jul 26th, 2005
Location: 160 Miles SW Of The Frozen Tundra, Wisconsin USA
Posts: 15221
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 8mm Mauser
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Dave, Over the years I've been a pretty consistent Winchester primer fan. That's what I started with and I just stayed with them. I tried some Federal small rifle and had trouble seating them in cases that had been reloaded with Wins with no problem. I do use Federal LR magnums in one of my wildcat rounds. If swapping primers I'd back off a grain or two depending on case size and work back up. Not just for safety reasons but for accuracy reasons as well. Just keep experimenting until you find what works best for your rifle. Good luck and have fun in your quest. RD



____________________
“Those that beat their rifles into plow shares will plow for those who didn’t”. Jefferson

Light hunting rifles; Gravity is permanent, recoil is temporary.Your Choice


 Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2014 10:03 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
13th Post
swampshooter

 

Joined: Sun Aug 3rd, 2008
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 7077
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: .204, 284, 7RM, 30/06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

This is when I find it very helpful to use a chronograph to assist in load development.
Lets say that your 22-250 is shooting a 55 gr. bullet at 3610 fps into an average of 5/8" at 100 yds using primer "A" while shooting 1" or more with other loads. It's then obvious that 3610 fps is your accuracy node. If you change brands of primers normally your velocity will change. So, testing primer "B" we find that our group has gone to 1" and velocity has dropped or risen 25 fps. Inexperienced reloaders stop there and conclude that primer "A" is better than primer "B", but the more knowledgeable reloader knows that until we get our load with primer "B" shooting at 3610 fps (back in our accuracy node) we don't know if it is better or worse. Also if we just change our primer with the other components remaining the same if primer "B" increases pressures and velocities we could create an unsafe condition.

I test primers by backing off my powder charge 3% and then going back up in 4 steps to my previously developed load, firing at least 5 shots at each charge level while chronographing and checking for signs of increased pressure on the way back up. With primer "B" it might be necessary to increase the powder charge slightly in order to get back into your accuracy node of 3610 fps. This is all easier to accomplish when using a chronograph to assist in your load development. When I get back to 3610 fps I then compare groups and shoot at least 2 more 5-shot groups to verify.

When comparing my groups I pay particular attention to any 4-shot knots as we don't know what caused the flier. IMHO, one shot out of the group is a flier and might have been caused by the bullet or cartridge case. Two shots out of the group is just a large group, but our other two groups fired will verify this one way or the other.

WOW, not very often that I go to these extremes with an explanation. I surprised myself. Other shooters might have other methods, this way has been successful for me for over 40 years. So I'll stick with it. Good luck :thumbs:



____________________
NRA Endowment member
NRA Range Technical Team Advisor
TSRA member
NRA certified pistol coach-Retired
NRA classified Master, F-Class mid-range
Velocity is like a new car, always losing value
BC is like diamonds, maintaining value forever


 Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2014 11:44 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
14th Post
Arrowsmith
Full Member


Joined: Wed Jan 8th, 2014
Location: Western, New York USA
Posts: 105
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 22-250
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Guys, thanks for taking the time and for the great advice. I will take your info. and put it to good use if the weather ever gets better again. We had 70 deg over weekend and now there is snow in the forecast again! We are taking out three youth hunters for their first ever turkey hunt this weekend and I was hoping for better weather for the kids. Oh well, Welcome to Western New York.



 Current time is 08:39 PM
Top




UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.2292 seconds (30% database + 70% PHP). 26 queries executed.