The Handloaders Bench Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register

Welcome to HandloadersBench.com. You will receive a activation email with a link in it to activate your account. If you don't receive the email check your spam or junk folders. Email servers look at our email as spam. Our mission here is to provide a place for those interested in the hobby of Reloading Ammunition. We offer a series of forums where they can ask questions, share answers, and highlight successes & failures so that others can learn. If you join our site please be aware that front porch rules apply. If you wouldn't say it on your front porch with grandma, your pastor and your 12 year old niece present it doesn't belong here. The Golden Rule applies. If you can live within those guidelines, Welcome Aboard! Spammers, trolls, and flamers will not last long here, your time would be better spent looking for a board where those traits are acceptable. HB Administration

Accuracy
 Moderated by: WildBill Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  Next Page Last Page  
 New Topic   Reply   Printer Friendly 
 Rating:  Rating
AuthorPost
 Posted: Fri Feb 7th, 2014 03:36 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
21st Post
ghrit



Joined: Fri Apr 14th, 2006
Location: Endless Mountains, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 3775
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: none
My favorite chambering is:: 2-3/4 dram equiv, 1 OZ, 7-1/2 trap
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Skoot wrote:

Makes me wonder... any good shooting instructors out there??? Some of us need some help!! LOL!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Yes.  Line yourself up with an Appleseed shoot, you'll come away with a lot fewer bad habits if you have any.



____________________
-Remote locations are cheap insurance.
-There are two kinds of ships: Submarines and targets


 Posted: Fri Feb 7th, 2014 05:12 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
22nd Post
Skoot
Full Member
 

Joined: Mon Feb 3rd, 2014
Location: MD, USA
Posts: 63
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 25-06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Thanks, ghrit, I'll be looking into the Appleseed shoots in more detail when I get home on Sunday.. going on a little trip to visit the great state of PA this weekend. :thumbs:


and man do I have bad habits.. some even involve the shooting sports. :shrug:



____________________
silvertung.com


 Posted: Fri Feb 7th, 2014 01:17 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
23rd Post
SavageShooter



Joined: Mon Feb 15th, 2010
Location: Suburb Of KC, Missouri USA
Posts: 5908
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: Improved Chamberings
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Skoot,

One of our members "Mortis" did a write up for proper shooting positions or something similar to that. Basically shooting from a bench and what you want to do vs. what not to do. If I can find it, I'll post it. Or you can search by his username and hopefully find it as well.



____________________
“We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.”
― Ronald Reagan


 Posted: Fri Feb 7th, 2014 01:41 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
24th Post
ghrit



Joined: Fri Apr 14th, 2006
Location: Endless Mountains, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 3775
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: none
My favorite chambering is:: 2-3/4 dram equiv, 1 OZ, 7-1/2 trap
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Skoot wrote:  going on a little trip to visit the great state of PA this weekend.  Let me know if you'll be anywhere in NEPA, I'll see you have a nice cuppa yer fave beverage. :thumbs:



____________________
-Remote locations are cheap insurance.
-There are two kinds of ships: Submarines and targets


 Posted: Fri Feb 7th, 2014 02:11 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
25th Post
Halfmoa
Full Member


Joined: Sat Jan 4th, 2014
Location: Easley, South Carolina USA
Posts: 151
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: .222 Remington, 22 Hornet
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I love this thread.. :)

I see that I might have a different method (philosophy?) than a few of you, maybe.  I totally agree with the practice, although it could just as easily be called "recreation" or "competing with one's self".  I love to tinker with handloads. I love to try different bullets, powders, and play with seating depths and such. On a trip to the range, I will carry some of my "tried and true" ammo that I know groups well and that I keep a supply of for hunting and targets. The rifle stays zeroed for this ammo at all times. I'll start with a few of them for practice (fun). After confirming that all is well, (i.e. that I am not having a bad day) then I may shoot some sets of prepared ammo with a new bullet or powder to test. This takes quite a while, because I'm careful to not heat the barrel. I don't live in a part of the country that has prairie dogs, gophers, or any other such targets of great quantity in one spot, so I must concern myself with delivering one shot accurately from a cold barrel. After doing my load testing and documenting the results, I'll clean the gun and fire a few fouling shots of my hunting ammo and confirm the gun or guns are put away zeroed and ready for business. I come away from my range visit with practice and knowing that my zero is confirmed and the rifle is ready. 

So, do you guys do much differently? Do you constantly shoot the same load all the time for practice? Am I odd that I like to search for a load that I might like even better than the one I already use? Seems a bit boring to not experiment some... 




____________________
Not saving your brass is like buying a new car and then giving it to the junk yard after the first tank of gas runs out.


 Posted: Fri Feb 7th, 2014 02:25 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
26th Post
swampratt
Senior Member


Joined: Mon Nov 30th, 2009
Location: Yukon, Oklahoma USA
Posts: 4517
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: .308 win.
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I am always looking for a better load.
I have a great hunting load which is my best accuracy load.
But only 5 years or so into reloading.

I have settled on 1 bullet for my 308 as it always gives best groups.
and my favorite bullet changed for my 30-06. that one was hornady 3031 bullet.
So that gun is now getting the sierra 165 game king Hollow point boat tail that the 308 gets.. but the powder is now H4350 instead of IMR4064.

I now shoot groups at 200 yards when i work up a load.
The 308 stays under 1" at 200
The 30-06 is there also but sometimes opens to 1.25" at 200 yards....But i have this new load..

I have found at 100 yards some bullets have not became stable..200 seems like a good compromise..as many hunting shots now are on large fields or cleared pipelines.

I had a bullet 178A max shoot a few groups in the .3-.4" area at 100 yards in my .308.. but opened to 7+inches at 300
and 4" at 200..
I was left scratching my head...so now this is why the 200 yard work up.
My last 4 shot group with my new Lapua brass turned in .808" group at 200 actually 211 yards in my savage 308.
Will stick with that load.
May need to get more bullets though.

Last edited on Fri Feb 7th, 2014 02:26 PM by swampratt



 Posted: Fri Feb 7th, 2014 04:58 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
27th Post
OKLHUNTER
Forum Benefactor


Joined: Sat Oct 16th, 2010
Location: Yukon, Oklahoma USA
Posts: 2077
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: Anything I Have Dies For
Status: 
Online

  back to top

When I want to shoot for accuracy, I have a 155 grain pill I use through my 308. It is the best load for that particular rifle. I also have a 168 grain load developed for hunting. A buddy of mine doesn't hesitate to inform me when he notices my shooting techniques are lacking. Sometimes, out of frustration, I'll tell him that if he thinks he can do better, then prove it. He usually does.

I practice with both loads, as much as I can afford, anyway.



____________________
"There's no such thing as a good gun. There's no such thing as a bad gun. A gun in the hands of a bad man is a very dangerous thing. A gun in the hands of a good person is no danger to anyone except the bad guys."

-Charlton Heston


 Posted: Fri Feb 7th, 2014 11:57 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
28th Post
243Ranger
Full Member
 

Joined: Sun Dec 16th, 2012
Location:  
Posts: 95
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 243 ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

There is a lot of great advice on this thread, but I would like to add my two cents worth.

I heard most of my life that "practice makes perfect". That is not entirely true. "Perfect" practice makes perfect! In other words, if you practice poor technique, you are just reinforcing bad habits. As others have mentioned, get someone to show you the right technique and practice that a little at a time until you can proceed through the steps correctly.

I'm not nitpicking here, but without guidance from an experienced shooter to correct poor form, you are wasting ammo because you are not progressing towards perfection... no matter how much you shoot!



 Posted: Sat Feb 8th, 2014 01:02 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
29th Post
Rockydog



Joined: Tue Jul 26th, 2005
Location: 160 Miles SW Of The Frozen Tundra, Wisconsin USA
Posts: 15221
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 8mm Mauser
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Halfmoa wrote:
I love this thread.. :)

So, do you guys do much differently? Do you constantly shoot the same load all the time for practice? Am I odd that I like to search for a load that I might like even better than the one I already use? Seems a bit boring to not experiment some... 



The point is not that you shouldn't experiment. That's why we handload.

The point is that some folks spend a fortune in $$ and even more costly, time, trying to improve accuracy using a rifle or with a shooting technique that are not capable of producing measureable improvement.

Kind of like measuring a powder measure's charge dropping consistency on a bathroom scale. Or a case trimmer setting with a wooden yardstick from the local lumberyard. Just won't happen. RD



____________________
“Those that beat their rifles into plow shares will plow for those who didn’t”. Jefferson

Light hunting rifles; Gravity is permanent, recoil is temporary.Your Choice


 Posted: Fri Feb 21st, 2014 04:25 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
30th Post
Skoot
Full Member
 

Joined: Mon Feb 3rd, 2014
Location: MD, USA
Posts: 63
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 25-06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top



The point is not that you shouldn't experiment. That's why we handload.

The point is that some folks spend a fortune in $$ and even more costly, time, trying to improve accuracy using a rifle or with a shooting technique that are not capable of producing measureable improvement.

Kind of like measuring a powder measure's charge dropping consistency on a bathroom scale. Or a case trimmer setting with a wooden yardstick from the local lumberyard. Just won't happen. RD



Agree 100%. I love handloading, I love shooting as well. Seems to me that in order to get better at something, one should focus on the very worst things.. the "problem areas", so to speak.

My "problem area" is surely ME.. as opposed to my equipment.







____________________
silvertung.com


 Posted: Fri Feb 21st, 2014 04:28 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
31st Post
Skoot
Full Member
 

Joined: Mon Feb 3rd, 2014
Location: MD, USA
Posts: 63
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 25-06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Altho, my equipment is crap.....


Need new equipment, LOL!!!!!!!



____________________
silvertung.com


 Posted: Sun Apr 20th, 2014 01:22 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
32nd Post
Arrowsmith
Full Member


Joined: Wed Jan 8th, 2014
Location: Western, New York USA
Posts: 105
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 22-250
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Wow! Glad I came across this. I was going to start a post "How to get groups from 3/4" to 1/2". I spent most of the day at the range yesterday and shot many .68-.75 groups in the 22-250 with several different handloads, and I also shot many 1"-1.2" groups in the .243 with my new handloads with an old cheap Bushnell 9 power mounted on it. Was wondering about OAL adjustment, neck turning, trickle charge powder measure (I currently use a uniflow), and whatever information you target terrors wanted to share. Maybe I just need to practice more!



 Posted: Sun Apr 20th, 2014 11:31 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
33rd Post
SavageShooter



Joined: Mon Feb 15th, 2010
Location: Suburb Of KC, Missouri USA
Posts: 5908
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: Improved Chamberings
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Arrowsmith, it really all depends on how much you shoot. If you told me that you shoot a 1000 rounds in a summer, then I'd say asking those questions your thinking would be good to ask and maybe explore. But if you shoot maybe a couple hundred rounds down the .22-250, then I'd say practice, practice and practice some more. :wink:



____________________
“We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.”
― Ronald Reagan


 Posted: Mon Apr 21st, 2014 12:24 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
34th Post
Arrowsmith
Full Member


Joined: Wed Jan 8th, 2014
Location: Western, New York USA
Posts: 105
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 22-250
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Savageshooter, there was a time BK (before kids) where I'd shoot a couple hundred rounds on almost each and every weekend of the summer while at my cabin. It got to the point where my cousin and I would spend the day shooting and testing loads, and then reload that evening in the cabin so we could have at it again in the morning before hitting the chuck fields for the last few hours of the day when it cooled down. Then came the kids.... They are now 19 and 21 and in college, so I am trying to get back at it.



 Posted: Sun May 25th, 2014 07:10 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
35th Post
president100
Full Member


Joined: Wed Feb 27th, 2013
Location: Wisconsin USA
Posts: 349
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 257 Roberts ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Accuracy IMHO and experiance is based on these things in this order.

1 The shooter.
2 The load
3 The bedding/floating
4 The barrel

The sights may need to be different for some shooters due to their eyes. In CMP matches your choices are fairly limited compared to other diciplines.

The trigger effects the shooter mentally, I know of one gent that consistently kicks butt with a 7+ pound trigger!
Other folks "need" those scary ounce triggers that if you breathe on them they will go off.

I know a couple of gents that take extreme pride in making average Jo factory rifles shoot "bugholes" by tweaking the load. Sometimes they need to adjust the bedding/floating if they get a "really bad one". Occasionally the barrel is to bad to work with(may just need a crowning, may be more).



____________________
"When the hammer drops the BS stops."

"Don't let them beat you down with their inexperience."

You won't know until You Actually try it.

"The impossible just takes longer".


 Posted: Sun May 25th, 2014 12:00 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
36th Post
woodsman777



Joined: Fri May 30th, 2008
Location: Washington USA
Posts: 4888
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 300winmag ...
Status: 
Online

  back to top

Wow what a great thread, there is no substitution for trigger/bench time (and proper technique) even with the latest greatest wizz-bang gun ever made.
As pointed out by many here you can usualy watch someone long enough and get a good feel for how invested(disciplined) they are in their craft.



____________________
Salt&Light

WOODSMAN777



 Posted: Sun May 25th, 2014 01:32 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
37th Post
Rockydog



Joined: Tue Jul 26th, 2005
Location: 160 Miles SW Of The Frozen Tundra, Wisconsin USA
Posts: 15221
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 8mm Mauser
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

One of the other impediments to 1/2 MOA shooting is scope quality. Many times I've heard people complain about their rifle or their loads when the problem is with their scope. I've got to wonder about guys that spend all of the effort to make premium loads and then struggle with groups because their scope has 1 1/2" of parallax at 100 yards. If you move your eye back and forth or up and down behind the scope the crosshairs will move across the target by a inch and a half with the gun held perfectly still.

You can compensate by making sure that the bullseye is at least centered in the parallax but that's a stop gap measure at best. In other words move your eye back and forth and move the scope to the point where there is an equal amount of parallax on either side of the target center. As I said a stop gap measure at best.

All of the quality parameters used when loading ammo are a waste when using such a scope. Always buy all the scope you can afford and check even the pricey ones for parallax. And don't automatically assume that the yardage numbers stamped on the front bell or side knob parallax adjuster are dead on either. I've seen scopes that were parallax free at +/- 20 yards from the numbers on the scope.

In short buy all the scope you can afford. I've got some relatively cheap scopes myself but they don't have parallax or they don't go on my rifle. RD



____________________
“Those that beat their rifles into plow shares will plow for those who didn’t”. Jefferson

Light hunting rifles; Gravity is permanent, recoil is temporary.Your Choice


 Posted: Sun May 25th, 2014 01:51 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
38th Post
DesertMarine



Joined: Wed Nov 12th, 2008
Location: New Mexico USA
Posts: 5321
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 308 Winchester ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Rockydog wrote:
One of the other impediments to 1/2 MOA shooting is scope quality. Many times I've heard people complain about their rifle or their loads when the problem is with their scope. I've got to wonder about guys that spend all of the effort to make premium loads and then struggle with groups because their scope has 1 1/2" of parallax at 100 yards. If you move your eye back and forth or up and down behind the scope the crosshairs will move across the target by a inch and a half with the gun held perfectly still.

You can compensate by making sure that the bullseye is at least centered in the parallax but that's a stop gap measure at best. In other words move your eye back and forth and move the scope to the point where there is an equal amount of parallax on either side of the target center. As I said a stop gap measure at best.

All of the quality parameters used when loading ammo are a waste when using such a scope. Always buy all the scope you can afford and check even the pricey ones for parallax. And don't automatically assume that the yardage numbers stamped on the front bell or side knob parallax adjuster are dead on either. I've seen scopes that were parallax free at +/- 20 yards from the numbers on the scope.

In short buy all the scope you can afford. I've got some relatively cheap scopes myself but they don't have parallax or they don't go on my rifle. RD


+1



____________________
"The United States Marine Corps is a drug and I am a recovering addict."

"American by birthright… U.S. MARINE by the Grace of GOD!"

"And on the 8th day God created Marines and like fish, we came from the sea!"


 Posted: Mon May 26th, 2014 12:36 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
39th Post
ptaylortx
Full Member


Joined: Tue Aug 28th, 2012
Location: Deweyville, Texas USA
Posts: 587
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: .308 winchester, 260 rem, 223... so many to choose
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I've started shooting a lot more the past two years and I've definitely seen a difference in my accuracy. I try to hit the range whenever work permits and take my range time seriously, just ask my girlfriend... I work on consistency in my cheek well, grip pressure, trigger pull and follow through. I've got 4 of my custom rifles that I feel I can shoot sub .5( many times sub .25) moa anytime I seriously concentrate on fundementals. A friend of mine went to the range with me a few weeks ago and could only manage 1.5 moa @ 100 with my best rifle. He attempted to blame it on my rig, but I told him the problem was the 10 rounds a year that he shoots and the fact that he just plain sucks. I then proceeded to put 4 shots in a dime. Next time I get a little time off with good weather conditions, I'm gonna give my shooting skill a gut check and try to get 4 consectutive sub .5 groups from each rifle. Might start a personal challange thread??



 Posted: Mon May 26th, 2014 03:41 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
40th Post
SavageShooter



Joined: Mon Feb 15th, 2010
Location: Suburb Of KC, Missouri USA
Posts: 5908
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: Improved Chamberings
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

See Phillip, proof that with constant practice one gets better and better. You're 100% right about your friend. If he only shoots 10 shots a year, he'll never be better than MoD (Minute of Deer) :wink:

Some people are good with this...others, not so much.


Also nice to see an older thread resurrected.


Last edited on Mon May 26th, 2014 03:41 AM by SavageShooter



____________________
“We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.”
― Ronald Reagan


 Current time is 08:41 PMPage:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  Next Page Last Page  
Top




UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.2627 seconds (29% database + 71% PHP). 31 queries executed.