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Killing The Rising Sun
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 Posted: Fri Jan 6th, 2017 04:11 PM
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Charley



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O'Reilly is too often full of himself, but he and Dugard did a good job on this. Didn't see anything really new informationwise, but nicely put together. One very interesting and telling note, they asked all the living former and current POTUS their opinions on using atomic weapons against Japan. Carter, H. W. Bush, and W. Bush all wrote letters saying that, in their opinion, it was necessary. Not a peep was heard from both Clinton and Obama.



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 Posted: Fri Jan 6th, 2017 04:32 PM
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ghrit



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I'd like to be sure that those two cases are of the "silence gives consent" sort. Somehow, I have my doubts.

My father (LCDR USNR in WW2) was ambivalent while being a proponent of nuclear power and eventually becoming a driving force in the development and deployment of commercial power plants. I am not at all sure the source of his reluctance, but the attack at Pearl motivated him to volunteer. All that by way of saying that using the bomb wasn't universally approved, even thru today.



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 Posted: Fri Jan 6th, 2017 04:57 PM
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BEAR
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Unfortunately, last year a hero died without media noticed.

'Dutch' Van Kirk was the navigator on the Enola Gay that dropped the bomb. He was about 19 years old when he plotted the course to change the world.

For years he would travel on the 'War Plane' circuit with the WW-2 planes. I met him there and listened as he explained his view on the bomb . Sufficient to say, he would have done it all over, even after he heard all the revisionist history mumbo jumbo sh7t.

Thanks for the info Charley, I'll get it.



 Posted: Fri Jan 6th, 2017 08:28 PM
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Plainsman
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Here's a pic of some guys that were personally involved in the decision to drop the bombs. Not to MAKE the decision, but maybe to LIVE because of it. This is my uncle's LST following the landings at Okinawa (where it took a kamikaze hit). When this pic was taken they were waiting for orders for the invasion and landings on mainland Japan.

Attachment: lst1029.jpg (Downloaded 76 times)



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 Posted: Sat Jan 7th, 2017 02:39 PM
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A pause for the COZ
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Personally I hold the Japanese responsible for us having to use A bomb.
It was obvious that after they lost their entire navy. They could not win the war.
All the deaths after that event were an exercise in futility.

I understand that they thought that if they made it so costly for us. maybe just maybe they could negotiate a peace that allowed them to remain in power.
Okinawa if nothing else should have displayed that was not going to happen.
It certainly convinced us they preferred to die instead of submit.

The use of the A bomb in this particular case, and maybe only in this case.
Not only saved thousands of American lives but also saved maybe a million Japanese lives.
Having to invade Japan would have been a nightmare for every one. 



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 Posted: Sat Jan 7th, 2017 05:07 PM
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BEAR
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I agree Coz. "I understand that they thought that if they made it so costly for us. maybe just maybe they could negotiate a peace that allowed them to remain in power."

Interesting Robert E. Lee thought the same. 100,000s deaths are on Lee's hands when AFTER he knew he could never win, he just prolonged the war, wanting the mounting deaths to depress the union. Did the Japs read American history?



 Posted: Sat Jan 7th, 2017 06:42 PM
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ghrit



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IIRC, the great debate over invading Japan was considered by some as a waste of time and energy, the idea was to lay siege to the entire island chain and starve them into submission. The other thought was to totally defeat them as fast as possible, and the bomb did that.



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 Posted: Sat Jan 7th, 2017 07:10 PM
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Plainsman
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That Lee used the deaths of his soldiers knowingly as a political ploy is nonsense. And the Japanese had no need at all of American history. They had the code of Bushido, which was a bit older than the US.



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 Posted: Sun Jan 8th, 2017 03:16 AM
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Charley



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Might look at John McKenzie's Uncertain Glory, Lee's Generalship Re-Examined for an interesting examination of Lee's strategy and tactics. Helps lay the "lost cause from the beginning" theories to rest, instead focusing on his relatively poor offensive strategies, ill health, poor logistics of the CSA's infrastructure, and other factors. No inference he traded his soldier's lives for the chance of a negotiated peace.
Off topic of course, but an excellent re-examination of his role commanding the Army of Northern Virginia. Grant was a much more effective commander (with a considerably lower casualty rate as well!).



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 Posted: Sun Jan 8th, 2017 05:27 PM
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Plainsman
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I haven't read the book Charley mentioned. But I'm very familiar with the revisionist history industry. If a figure is even mildly popular, famous, or revered there will be academics lining up to tearing them down. This goes for Washington, JFK, Truman, Eisenhower, the works. Of course if a figure is even marginally connected with slavery (oh, my!), the Confederacy, or other such 'evil' configurations they will be especially vulnerable to this 'faculty lounge syndrome.' And don't forget the PhD dissertation factory. They gotta write about SOMETHING, and many subsequently published tomes start that way. I don't say that Charley's book is in any way questionable, just that I, personally, would view it askance until I read it myself. I'll put it on my list, at about position # 2,435.



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 Posted: Sun Jan 8th, 2017 07:34 PM
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Charley



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Pretty good analysis, done by a hard core history buff, not a professional historian. He was wiling to go outside the writings of (mostly) southern historians from 1875 to 1950 or so. His suggestions are the Lee was a good general, but not great. He rated Jackson, Grant, Sheridan, and Sherman above Lee in terms of strategic vision and a hands on approach to tactical issues. I recommend the book, good alternate view.



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 Posted: Wed Jan 18th, 2017 01:32 AM
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daboone
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Just ordered Killing The Rising Sun for my Kindle. Thank for the heads up.



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