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How to find that load data
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 Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2014 04:06 PM
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revolver trained
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President100.. I know this is an older thread.. but I'm new here and wanted to comment on what pres 100 said.... regarding the shortage of components. Where I live in Chicago Illinois metro area, any pistol powder is almost nonexistent. because of this reloaders are looking into using powder that is not best suited or not intended at all for handgun applications. As desparate as I feel at times I'm not going to try to make a IMR-4064 (rifle powder) into a handgun powder. I have 1lb of IMR-4227 left  which I use for .357 MAG. and 1lb of IMR-PB which has limited handgun use. Until the situation gets better, I'm down to just shooting and reloading more rifle these days !!   



 Posted: Sat Sep 6th, 2014 12:54 PM
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Rockydog



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revolver trained, Pistol powders are hard to find everywhere right now. When things loosen up a bit there is a good Chicagoland source. But even they are out of pistol powders now. Check out the site. They deliver to the Chicago area about 8 times a year.

http://www.recobstargetshop.com/page.htm?PG=Illclubdates

Oh, and the are just plain nice people to do business with. I live about 20 miles from them but there is an employee who works there and lives in my town. They'll deliver to my door at no charge. RD



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 Posted: Sat Sep 6th, 2014 01:31 PM
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crazyfisherman
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thank you for the link rd



 Posted: Sat Sep 6th, 2014 05:14 PM
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revolver trained
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Rocky Dog, thanks for the link it looks good.. I figure things will losten up at some point.. By the way I like your personal quote by Charles.....



 Posted: Sun Oct 26th, 2014 12:20 AM
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president100
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revolver trained wrote:
President100.. I know this is an older thread.. but I'm new here and wanted to comment on what pres 100 said.... regarding the shortage of components. Where I live in Chicago Illinois metro area, any pistol powder is almost nonexistent. because of this reloaders are looking into using powder that is not best suited or not intended at all for handgun applications. As desparate as I feel at times I'm not going to try to make a IMR-4064 (rifle powder) into a handgun powder. I have 1lb of IMR-4227 left  which I use for .357 MAG. and 1lb of IMR-PB which has limited handgun use. Until the situation gets better, I'm down to just shooting and reloading more rifle these days !!   


Just to clarify I was referring to My using filthy red dot for what I usually use a nice clean powder for in 9mm. I really hate feeling like I desperately need to clean after 30 rounds! But I have it in stock from way back when I found a much cleaner powder, so I will use it up. It is accurate but filthy.
I recently purchased some CFE pistol for a friend that likes to use other ball pistol powder, but we are taking what we can get and hoping for better times.



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 Posted: Thu Nov 13th, 2014 11:45 AM
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pghjjb
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Charlie:
That's a fantastic post. For those of us that are starting in hand loading, it is very informative. I took an NRA reloading course and was basically told to follow the books. Thanks!



 Posted: Fri Nov 14th, 2014 12:21 PM
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daboone
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Rockydog wrote: Charley, Thank You! You be da man. :kneel:
DITTO
+1
:thumbs::thumbs::losers:



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 Posted: Fri Jan 23rd, 2015 01:02 AM
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tfdchief
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pghjjb wrote: Charlie:
That's a fantastic post. For those of us that are starting in hand loading, it is very informative. I took an NRA reloading course and was basically told to follow the books. Thanks!
I don't know how old your Red Dot is, but the new formula is much cleaner, especially if you load above the middle.  I am shooting 45 Colt with 255 gr Horandy lead bullets and 6.0 gr of Red Dot.  It is cleaner than factory most factory rounds I have tried.  I usually use Unique for all my pistol loads, but the data for 45 Colt, Unique was all over the place.  Red Dot data was more consistant, so I gave it a try.....like it so far.
Chief

Last edited on Fri Jan 23rd, 2015 01:04 AM by tfdchief



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 Posted: Tue Dec 1st, 2015 05:39 PM
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Old Cop
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I have been reloading since the mid '70's. Stopped when I retired for 14-15 years. Just started up again. At one point I loaded for 5 handgun and 4 rifle calibers. Started reading this site and was surprised how much I didn't know. One thing I have learned is to get a routine and stick to it. I always check my cases with a flashlight after charging. There have been times when my light disappeared. I would start to load without using it then stop and go find one to use. I found five cases out of 50 with lite loads of Unique in a 38. I had started not to double check but found another lite and checked. Just looking with regular light it didn't show but under a flash it was very noticeable. My 2 cents is get a sequence and stick to it,and double check everything; twice. If you are in to big a hurry to do that be safe and go do something else.

Last edited on Tue Dec 1st, 2015 05:40 PM by Old Cop



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 Posted: Fri Dec 11th, 2015 09:09 PM
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Stan
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Old Cop wrote: I have been reloading since the mid '70's. Stopped when I retired for 14-15 years. Just started up again. At one point I loaded for 5 handgun and 4 rifle calibers. Started reading this site and was surprised how much I didn't know. One thing I have learned is to get a routine and stick to it. I always check my cases with a flashlight after charging. There have been times when my light disappeared. I would start to load without using it then stop and go find one to use. I found five cases out of 50 with lite loads of Unique in a 38. I had started not to double check but found another lite and checked. Just looking with regular light it didn't show but under a flash it was very noticeable. My 2 cents is get a sequence and stick to it,and double check everything; twice. If you are in to big a hurry to do that be safe and go do something else.Very sound advice indeed. Do you also check your brass after having fired it to see if it tells you anything about the load? I am new and just finished using Unique on a .38 spl load with 4.2 grains of powder and 158 gr. LRN Hornady bullets. The primers are somewhat rounded and not flat. I suspect that tells me that the load is too light and that I should scale up so that the primers flatten out after shooting. Think an increase of .2 grains is in order. Do you have an opinion regarding that theory?



 Posted: Sun Jan 17th, 2016 08:27 PM
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hubcap52
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Oh, if only it were true.  :rolleyes:  :wink:  Truth be told, I'd probably have been much more $ ahead if I'd have only used factory ammo. But then, I wouldn't have had the same amount of fun learning, testing, etc., etc. Yes, it IS POSSIBLE to save $ reloading. Most folks I know don't, but are OK with that. A hobby is a hobby, not a business.


Hamltnblue wrote:  The definition of reloader should be changed to A money saving, handle pulling monkey. :)

Last edited on Sun Jan 17th, 2016 08:28 PM by hubcap52



 Posted: Sun Jan 17th, 2016 08:36 PM
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hubcap52
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Yes, ALWAYS check your brass. Rounded primers do NOT necessarily mean the load is too light. The bullet not exiting the barrel IS. Also although in this case it's OK, a .2 gr. increase can be too much, depending on case capacity and how close you are to max. pressures. Better to use a .5% - 1% increase in charge weight  than a unit value.


Stan wrote: Very sound advice indeed. Do you also check your brass after having fired it to see if it tells you anything about the load? I am new and just finished using Unique on a .38 spl load with 4.2 grains of powder and 158 gr. LRN Hornady bullets. The primers are somewhat rounded and not flat. I suspect that tells me that the load is too light and that I should scale up so that the primers flatten out after shooting. Think an increase of .2 grains is in order. Do you have an opinion regarding that theory?



 Posted: Mon Apr 11th, 2016 04:40 AM
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lymanb
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As a new member I cannot start a new topic but if you need some good help go here "http://reloadammo.com/reload.htm" They don't have all the answers but they have one h___ of a lot & share this site

later, lyman
"All roads lead to roam":thumbs:



 Posted: Mon Apr 11th, 2016 09:57 PM
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hubcap52
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38 Spl is a relatively low pressure cartridge, so don't expect a great deal of flattening from a properly functioning firearm. 4.4 gr. Unique w/a 158 gr. lead bullet should be safe, other things being kosher.

Last edited on Mon Apr 11th, 2016 09:59 PM by hubcap52



 Posted: Tue May 3rd, 2016 03:36 PM
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Lymanb, I took a look at your site and in the .357 mag section they had the following recommendation for a 110 grain Jacketed Hollow Point:

Powder W-296 23.0 gr. 2,078 F.P.S. (max)

In the Hornady manual (3rd edition), they list RIFLE loads, under their RIFLE section, for the .357 Mag with a 125 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point up to 2,000 F.P.S. and again, that's in the RIFLE section.
This is crazy, and there is nowhere where it's only recommended for a rifle! In a normal revolver this would create all kinds of issues! I just hope I am not standing beside anyone on the range who torched this off through a lighter framed, .357 Mag, revolver!



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 Posted: Tue May 3rd, 2016 05:53 PM
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MacBeth
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I am not sure that 23 gr of 296 would even fit in a 357 case.



 Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2016 09:53 PM
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I agree 100% with getting a manual, there's a lot of information you need to know besides load data if you're going to reload. I started in the early 90's and bought two manuals, a Hornady 4th edition and a Hodgdon no. 26. Been cross referencing with them ever since.
I decided to update my material and bought a Hornady 9th edition and was in for a shock. The discrepancy of information between powder manufacturers' and bullet manufacturers' data is ridiculous. According to Hornadys' modern data, I should have blown my guns up a long time ago. Answer I got from the companies is same bullet design changes, same powder changes. Ok, have to accept, not believe the explanation.
So, using today's bullets and today's powder, I decided on a powder change for my 357 mag to IMR 4227 because of flame cutting issues. Used Hornady's modern data for 158 gr HP XTP. 12.4 grn to 14.5 gr max. Worked up to 13.8 gr. Had unburned powder issues and called hogden. They cited not enough crimp(not the problem) or too low of a load. I asked for their data and theirs START at 14.5gr and END at 16.0gr.
How do you extrapolate from that? Incidently Hornady's old data mimics that, start at 14.9 and end at 17gr.



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 Posted: Sat Sep 24th, 2016 01:10 AM
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Rockydog



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Willie wrote:
Lymanb, I took a look at your site and in the .357 mag section they had the following recommendation for a 110 grain Jacketed Hollow Point:

Powder W-296 23.0 gr. 2,078 F.P.S. (max)

In the Hornady manual (3rd edition), they list RIFLE loads, under their RIFLE section, for the .357 Mag with a 125 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point up to 2,000 F.P.S. and again, that's in the RIFLE section.
This is crazy, and there is nowhere where it's only recommended for a rifle! In a normal revolver this would create all kinds of issues! I just hope I am not standing beside anyone on the range who torched this off through a lighter framed, .357 Mag, revolver!


Willie, Let's take a look at these loads. They are NOT out of line.

Obviously these are near Max loads that should be handled with care but are within .357 pressure limits.

The W296 load of 23.0 gr at 2,078 FPS (37,200 CUP) is right out of the Hodgdon 2014 reloading manual using a Hornady 110 gr XTP.
Note that there are loads using the same bullet with much less powder and less velocity at much higher CUP. Example: Hornady 110 gr XTP using 9.0 grains of HP-38 yields 1652 fps with a whopping 42,500 CUP.

The same manual has 125 grain XTPs loaded with 20 grains of H4227 at 2122 FPS (42,000 CUP). This is in the rifle section. The same load is listed in the pistol section at 1839 fps. (42,000 CUP) Again hot loads but not over max.

The current CUP SAAMI .357 Magnum standard is 45000 CUP. Copper units of Pressure as determined by the Copper Crusher Method.

The current SAAMI .357 Magnum PSI standard is 35000 PSI. Pounds Per Square Inch.

(Think MPH as relates to KPH. Two different methods to say the same thing.)

RD



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 Posted: Mon Apr 10th, 2017 12:27 AM
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shootit
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Good points all,but,reloading manuals give starting a and max load data.why not start in the middle?



 Posted: Mon Apr 10th, 2017 03:11 AM
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daboone
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shootit wrote:
Good points all,but,reloading manuals give starting a and max load data.why not start in the middle?

Sure you can start in the middle. But if you are just starting out you will learn a lot about how your gun responds to different loads. Almost every powder will need to be worked up to find what is optimal for each gun loaded for. What's the rush? Experience is gained by trials. If you just want plinking or sub MOA then load work up will teach you what you need to know, what powders work and which ones don't for the gun and bullet combo.



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