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How to find that load data
 Moderated by: klallen Page:    1  2  3  Next Page Last Page  
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 Posted: Mon Apr 21st, 2014 04:10 PM
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Charley



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After reading the umpteenth question about finding a load for a bullet that isn't listed in a loading manual, I thought I might write down my thoughts on the matter, and the methods I use to find a safe, useful load.

Please note, I'm not slamming those who can't find data. One of the first bits of advice we get/got as beginning handloaders is to FOLLOW THE MANUAL. They have tested, safe loads, and needed advice on how not to blow yourself or your gun into small pieces.

If you have a cast bullet for a handgun that you can't find data for , you can safely use the data for the next heavier bullet listed. It likely won't be the best load, but will be a starting point you can work from. If you have a 150 grain cast bullet, and the manuals list data for 100, 125, 140, and 158 grain bullets, use the 158 grain start data, and you will be in the ball park.

You can also use jacketed START data for cast bullets, assuming the bullet profiles are similar, and bearing surface isn't radically different. Cast bullets typically will give somewhat less pressure than jacketed bullets.

The solid bullets of copper/bronze alloys are a different animal, and I wouldn't extrapolate data for them. Harder than lead alloy, different friction co-efficient. Also behave differently that jacketed bullets, because of the lack of a lead/lead alloy core.

OAL is important, but not the overwhelming issue some make it to be. Using START data, seat to the longest practical length you can (less than cylinder length for revolvers, less than magazine/chamber length with autopistols). If the round chambers properly, without needing an extra "bump" to close the slide, (evidence you might have a bullet contacting the rifling), you will be fine.

You must research YOUR gun, and YOUR load. Don't blindly follow any data, from manuals (they get corrections at times, wrong information sometimes makes it to the printers!), or internet information from various sources, including Handloadersbench. Filter what you find. If you are inexperienced, ALWAYS USE THE STARTING DATA, and work up from there.

One more thought...a Handloader is someone who can interpret load information, determine if it is suitable for his firearm, and work up a load that will work for his purposes...plinking, hunting, self defense, target work, etc. He makes it work, because he tailors it to his gun, and purposes.
A reloader is basically a handle pulling monkey, who cranks out a load using information he found somewhere. It is pretty much the same as shooting factory, except the machinery is different.
Be a handloader...



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 Posted: Mon Apr 21st, 2014 04:15 PM
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williamwaco
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Yeah! . . . What Charley said!

Last edited on Mon Apr 21st, 2014 04:15 PM by williamwaco



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 Posted: Mon Apr 21st, 2014 08:15 PM
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Ozark Ed



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If you're reloading a handload are you then a rehandloader? :sofa:



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 Posted: Mon Apr 21st, 2014 10:09 PM
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Hamltnblue
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Also google is very helpful. Just type the bullet and load you're looking for and you'll find many hits. Compare several sources to double check data.



 Posted: Mon Apr 21st, 2014 10:55 PM
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president100
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STICKY?

I believe some of the reason we are seeing the influx of these types of questions is the difficulty of getting some components lately.
Please be careful and start low.
Manumitus eventually cures itself.(some sooner some later)



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 Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2014 12:37 AM
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jayhkr
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Hope I wasn't the one that prompted this thread, however I think it will help LOTS of people, both newbies (me) and seasoned handloaders too! Thank you for the great info! I know it'll help me on my adventures of reloading. Thank you.

+1 on Sticky



 Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2014 12:42 AM
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Rockydog



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Charley, Thank You! You be da man. :kneel:



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Light hunting rifles; Gravity is permanent, recoil is temporary.Your Choice


 Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2014 12:51 AM
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SansSouci
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Yeah, but Charley, I have a 146 grain semi-cast jeacketed bullet for a...;-)

On the serious side, isn't this forum a place where loaders can float a question for knowledgeable feedback and in the process save time & resources?



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 Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2014 01:21 AM
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Rockydog



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SansSouci, It certainly is that. We go out of our way to help any one we can. But in today's world, with all of the internet resources out there, it sometimes gets a bit tiresome to answer questions about powders and loads that are readily available on the powder or bullet manufacturers web site.

This site was founded by a group of gentlemen who truly want to help reloaders in a flame war free environment. I humbly think that it has succeeded rather well. But sometimes things get a bit tiring. When we have 3 threads on the front two pages about crimping .223s for ARs the staff gets a bit weary. You can only answer the same question so many times in a day with out going a bit mad. We'd ask that folks poke around a bit, try our search engine and then ask questions if they haven't found the answer. We'll gladly help.

If you notice there are about 10 active admins and moderators and another 15-20 regular members who answer most of the questions. We are all volunteers. Not bitching here or looking for sympathy, just trying to explain what's behind Charley's post and our comments. Hope you understand. RD



____________________
“Those that beat their rifles into plow shares will plow for those who didn’t”. Jefferson

Light hunting rifles; Gravity is permanent, recoil is temporary.Your Choice


 Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2014 02:00 AM
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Charley



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jayhkr wrote:
Hope I wasn't the one that prompted this thread, however I think it will help LOTS of people, both newbies (me) and seasoned handloaders too! Thank you for the great info! I know it'll help me on my adventures of reloading. Thank you.

+1 on Sticky

No, not at all. President100 is absolutely correct...with the market for components as it is today, every body buys whatever they can find. Hell, I do that myself! Just there are limits to what the publishers of load data can distribute...a jillion different bullets, primers are what you can find, powders are what you can find, and it severely limits folks who cannot find data. Just trying to help point towards a train of thought that helps you interpret data for loads that use components similar to the components you have, but are not necessarily an exact match.

Notice I just dealt with handgun cartridges? Lower pressures (usually), fewer variables than rifle cartridges.

Primers are another area that could be covered. gain, we buy what we can find. Thankfully, primers do seem to be getting easier to find in many locations. How many of us have screwed up, and when we checked the bag when we got home, we bought small handgun MAGNUM primers instead of small handgun primers? I know I've done it! Most manuals will tell you substitution isn't a big deal with STANDARD loads and cartridge, but, as always START LOW and work up. The exceptions are the big cartridges with slow burning powders that are not recommended to be reduced below 3%, like H-110.

Always ask questions, but always put some thought into a question. As an example, don't ask "what powder should I use". Do some research, plenty of information available from dealers and manufacturers. Than, ask, "I've researched some powders for this application, and blank, blank, and blank powders look like they would work. Which of these seems to work best for you?"

OTOH, maybe I'm just a grouchy old fart...



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 Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2014 02:17 AM
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Shadow
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Rockydog wrote: Charley, Thank You! :kneel:

LOL!

Ditto, Charley thanks!


Another thing to consider besides making a sticky, is you can put this in your "Watch Topic" list.  I've got several threads that I refer to quite often in the Watch topic list.




Last edited on Tue Apr 22nd, 2014 02:21 AM by Shadow



 Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2014 03:32 PM
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rhythmtech
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Charley's notes are excellent, so here's my 2 cents...

Pressure does not respond linearly to bullet mass or powder charge amount, which means it can be easy to get into the deep end. So they aren't directly proportional throughout the range of case capacity.



 Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2014 05:59 PM
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Charley



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Agree 100%.



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"The fact that guns can kill another human being is the whole point. That's why they are so darn good at deterring violent criminals". Ann Coulter


 Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2014 10:19 PM
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jm423
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Well put, Charley! Pres100, I think we are seeing a humongous influx of newbie loaders that haven't been "seasoned" enough to have a feel for when/ where/ what you can or can't extrapolate, like some of us that have been reloading/ handloading since we still had hair and teeth, Better they ask than cause damage to themselves or others, all I can say.



 Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2014 12:48 PM
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Ozark Ed



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Could put stuff like this in a FAQ section?



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 Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2014 11:33 PM
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bcdon
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Charley wrote:

A reloader is basically a handle pulling monkey, who cranks out a load using information he found somewhere. It is pretty much the same as shooting factory, except the machinery is different.
Be a handloader...


Hey,I resemble that remark! :) Well, I did when I started not to long ago but my goal is to be a handloader. I'm taking my time, and reading a lot but the end game is to understand the process and not just follow it: A handloader.

Thanks for your words of wisdom and all y'all at this site..it is most appreciated.



 Posted: Thu Apr 24th, 2014 10:11 PM
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Hamltnblue
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The definition of reloader should be changed to A money saving, handle pulling monkey. :)



 Posted: Thu Apr 24th, 2014 10:27 PM
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Rayzor
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Wise words Charlie.
I use 2 different load manuals and compare them each and every time before loading a batch of bullets.
They show the range and one shows 3 different powder amounts.
Of that, I usually go with the mid range powder amounts.
I am not out to break any speed or distance records or loose fingers and facial features.
BE SAFE!



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 Posted: Thu Apr 24th, 2014 11:19 PM
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shastaboat
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Pre 1975 reloading manuals were not bullet brand specific. Load data for say a 125 gr jacketed bullet is good for any normal cup and core jacketed bullet in a specific caliber.



 Posted: Sun Jun 22nd, 2014 06:24 PM
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dsh1106
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Thanks Charley. I wish this was a sticky, good info and I wouldn't have posted about "cast bullet" loads....

Anyhow, Thanks again !!!!!



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