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Ring on my Brass
 Moderated by: Timberghozt, Rockydog, fryboy
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 Posted: Sun Mar 26th, 2017 02:33 AM
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pengo
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I successfully shot my first reloads today....But.  there seems to be a cosmetic ring going 3/4 of the dia on the twice fired brass. The primer looks fine This was a .220 swift with a 55grn Hornady sp and H4895.  I also loaded some new brass, and this mark is not present with that brass. I am guessing that I did something incorrect when I resized. Should I pitch the brass? The mark is not real prominent, and looks like a scuff mark to me. After all the reading the last couple of months, I am a little paranoid about blowing something up.



 Posted: Sun Mar 26th, 2017 03:53 AM
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Rockydog



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Where is the mark located? Are they all in the same place? Like maybe 3/8 inch above the base? Pics would be a great help. RD



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Light hunting rifles; Gravity is permanent, recoil is temporary.Your Choice


 Posted: Sun Mar 26th, 2017 11:26 PM
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Paul B
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Could be one of several things.

"I successfully shot my first reloads today....But. there seems to be a cosmetic ring going 3/4 of the dia on the twice fired brass."

I'm inclined to think it's just a normal pressure ring. When the cartridge lies on the chamber floor there is space above it. When the round is fired, it expands in all directions but mores towards the top of the chamber creating that ring, or slight bulge.

The other thing might be an incipient case head separation caused by the brass not being properly sized during the resizing process. To check if that is the cause, take something like a paper clip and bend one end into a small "L" shape and sharpen the edge a bit. Reach down into the brass and see if it hooks into that ring from the inside. If it snags on an internal ring it's probably best to discard that brass.
This is how I set up my sizing die for bottleneck cartridges.

1. Take a once fired factory round and blacken the neck and shoulders with a Magic Marker or Sharpee pen. Some people like to smoke the neck and shoulder, but I find the Magic Marker/Sharpee pen a bit better.

2. Carefully lubricate the case.

3. Loosen the lock ring on the sizing die and back off about two turns from when the die is set to touch the shell holder.

4. Size the case. Note where the marks are on the case and turn the die down about a half a turn and size again. Turn down some more, and resize again. What you are looking for is the marks on the blackening just touching the shoulder.

5. Clean the lube from the case and try it in the rifle. It may chamber just a bit on the snug side. If so, turn the die down ever so slightly, lube and size again. Wipe off the lube and try in the rifle. If it slides in as easily as a factory round, you should be good to go. If not, usually one more very slight adjustment should fix the problem.

6. Tighten the locking ring for the die and you're done. You have just set your sizing die up for a custom fit to your specific rifle, rather than a generic one size fits all guns.

Paul B.



 Posted: Mon Mar 27th, 2017 12:25 AM
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pengo
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Not much there.

Attachment: IMG_3884.JPG (Downloaded 105 times)



 Posted: Mon Mar 27th, 2017 01:37 AM
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olyeller
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Paul B said:
The other thing might be an incipient case head separation caused by the brass not being properly sized during the resizing process. To check if that is the cause, take something like a paper clip and bend one end into a small "L" shape and sharpen the edge a bit. Reach down into the brass and see if it hooks into that ring from the inside. If it snags on an internal ring it's probably best to discard that brass.

Pengo said:
Not much there.
I believe you are seeing exactly what Paul is referring to. Follow his procedure to investigate and go another step forward and cut the case lengthwise so you can actually see inside at the ring.
IME, the ring is exactly where I've seen separation in a 270WIN I had that was "kitchen table smithed" and wound up with too much headspace.





Attachment: headspace problem.JPG (Downloaded 102 times)



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 Posted: Mon Mar 27th, 2017 01:44 AM
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Rockydog



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I'd go back and read whay Paul just wrote above or go this link http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/internal and carefully read the information there from start to finish, paying special attention to the part about headspace that starts about 5 paragraphs into the page.

In short, Because the Swift is a rimmed cartridge, if you set the headspace on the case shoulder back too far it will be pulled forward to the chamber shoulder with each firing. Usually, if you have set it back too far it will fail on the 3rd or 4th firing. You can get a facefull of gas or worse with these separations. You will, in all probability open the bolt and extract only the portion below the line and leave the rest of the case in the chamber. I've been there and done that.

I'm not 100% sure that that is your problem but wouldn't be surprized if it is. As Paul said making a little L shaped hook to try and catch that ring inside will let you know that this is the problem. RD

And take a look here and see if this looks familiar. Also a nice photo of a case checker. https://www.searchlock.com/search?safe=&start=0&qn=&tbm=isch&sr=pageredir-bing&q=Case+head+separation



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Light hunting rifles; Gravity is permanent, recoil is temporary.Your Choice


 Posted: Mon Mar 27th, 2017 03:37 AM
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pengo
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Cut one open. What do you guys think? I did not see any thing on the cutaway section either. I also used a dental tool to check the inside of the case, and felt nothing.

Attachment: IMG_3887.JPG (Downloaded 97 times)

Last edited on Mon Mar 27th, 2017 03:42 AM by pengo



 Posted: Mon Mar 27th, 2017 03:43 AM
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pengo
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A secon case cut away.

Attachment: IMG_3886.JPG (Downloaded 96 times)



 Posted: Mon Mar 27th, 2017 04:21 AM
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olyeller
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Well I feel a lot better for you now. It looks like we were wrong about the separation, but it is nice to know for sure.:thumbs:

At least now you have some experience looking for it. I think we all have had some sometime during our reloading years.



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 Posted: Mon Mar 27th, 2017 04:52 AM
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Rockydog



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Must be just scuff marks but I'd keep an eye out for separations any time you are loading rimmed or belted rounds. Hopw we didn't lead you too far astray. RD



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 Posted: Mon Mar 27th, 2017 06:35 AM
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runfiverun
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that is the area where case stretch would occur.

I see it on many cases since it's also in the same area where the die and the shell holder meet.



 Posted: Mon Mar 27th, 2017 11:48 AM
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SavageShooter



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I've seen this on ammo that's stored upside down in plastic boxes. I've also seen this on brass that came out of dirty chambers. If you don't store/carry that ammo upside down in plastic boxes to and from range, then I'd clean the chamber of said rifle and try again. Your cut away brass looks perfectly fine...beside the cut away part. :wink:



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 Posted: Mon Mar 27th, 2017 05:02 PM
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Paul B
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Just a simple heads up. If you adjust your sizing die as I suggested, the shells will now headspace on the shoulder rather than the rim. It works great on belted magnum brass as well allowing one to ignore the belt's existence. Brass will last a lot longer too.
Paul B.



 Posted: Tue Mar 28th, 2017 05:10 AM
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pengo
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RD you guys are flattening the learning curve for me. Thanks



 Posted: Tue Mar 28th, 2017 05:11 AM
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pengo
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Paul, I will try your method the next time, thanks for the help.



 Posted: Tue Apr 18th, 2017 11:18 AM
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ireload2
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Your plastic cartridge box can some times cause a harmless ring on your cases from rattling around.

To me it looks like you have a tear in the chamber caused by a poor reamer. If your new batch of brass does that I would think it is the chamber. That spot may be so shallow that a smith could polish it a little and remove it. Otherwise the factory may need to provide you with a new barrel free of charge.



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