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Reloading data for 140 gn Nosler E-tip in cal. 7 x 64 Brenneke
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 Posted: Tue May 7th, 2013 06:45 PM
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Paul Tummers



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Got some of those bullets to load, but do not have the slightest idea how to work with those solids.My edition of  Q-load is not of any help in this because it only lists the 150 gn E-tip.

Have to use VV N150 powder for it.

Who can help me out??



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 Posted: Wed May 22nd, 2013 03:07 PM
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Paul B
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Paul. The Speer manuals for many years said in the section for the .280 Remington that the data was usable for the 7x64 as the cartridges wee just two versions of the same thing. The lat manual to do so was the Number 11 circa 1987 with the 4th printing in 1991.
The manual said "THE FOLLOWING DATA ARE SUITABLE FOR USE IN LOADING THE 7mm/06 AND 7X64 mm CARTRIDGES. I have the latest Barnes manual so I can give you the .280 Rem. data.
I've just started playing with the 140 gr. TSX in my .280 so maybe we can compare notes.
Paul B.



 Posted: Wed May 22nd, 2013 07:44 PM
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Paul Tummers



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# Paul B.

Got your mail but seem not to be able to answer it, get a notice undelivered mail.



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 Posted: Wed May 22nd, 2013 07:51 PM
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Paul B
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Not too surprised. I have friends in Canada and they have the same problem. I haven't been able to figure out a way to stop it. Was what I sent helpful?
Paul B.



 Posted: Wed May 22nd, 2013 07:58 PM
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Paul Tummers



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Yes, thank you!

It seems to be, you only allow mail from selected senders to reach you according the delivery failed message I got.

If I can do something for you in Q-L, let me know, there are several barnes bullets listed in the program.

I am going to try  to send you a PM with the PDS's attached, hope it works.



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 Posted: Thu May 23rd, 2013 08:14 AM
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Paul Tummers



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# Paul B; I cannot send the Pdf's as attachments, sorry!



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 Posted: Thu May 23rd, 2013 03:41 PM
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Paul B
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That's OK Paul. I have this problem with E-mail coming from out of the country. :sad: I've tried off and on to figure it out but so far, no such luck.
Paul B.

Last edited on Thu May 23rd, 2013 03:41 PM by Paul B



 Posted: Sat May 25th, 2013 03:35 PM
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Perhaps this helps, or at least confirms:
                                 .280 Remington               7X64 Brenneke
Cartridge length                    2.54                               2.52
Case Capacity CC                  4.44                               4.29       = 96.6% Less
Case Capacity Gr. H2O           68.58                             66.2       = 95.2% Less

All data from Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions. Why the difference between % of capacity in CC and Grains of water? Statistically insignificant I guess. Bottom line, not exactly the same but very close. RD



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 Posted: Mon May 27th, 2013 07:45 PM
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drysonly
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I hunted with the 7x64 Brenneke for a couple of years and it is a good cartridge almost the same as the 280 Remington.I looked to see if I had saved any notes and I can't find them now.But Frank Barnes Cartridges of The World list some loads and a short history.He listed a 140 grs bullet with 53 grs of IMR-4350 @ 3000 fps and a 160 gr with 50 grs IMR-4350 @2750.When I traded for this rifle it came with dies and 15 boxes of Norma 150 gr ammo,like a dummy I let them get away from me.The rifle was imported by Jack First several years ago,some may still remember him.



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 Posted: Mon May 27th, 2013 07:52 PM
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Paul Tummers



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The problem is, the Nosler E-tips are solids ,which changes the picture totally.

I got some Q-L calculations from somebody who has bought the newest update of the program, in mine only the 150 grainers are listed.

I already made some test loads which are to be tested soon.



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 Posted: Thu Oct 3rd, 2013 05:50 PM
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xausa
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Paul Tummers wrote: The problem is, the Nosler E-tips are solids ,which changes the picture totally.


 

You've lost me there. What difference does it make whether bullets are solids or soft points as far as load data is concerned?

I have a number of loads listed in the German DEVA loading manual, which is issued by the organization which oversees research and proof of German hunting and competetive weapons.

They do not list 150 grain projectiles, but list a number of 10.0 gram bullets (154 grains). Four are for VV N160, beginning with the Hornady 154SP at 58 grains, the Hornady 154SST at 53 grains, the RWS DK at 53.8 grains and the SM-Thun CDP at 51.5

They also list a load for a Hirtenberger ABC 154 grain bullet, using 55.0 grains of IMR 4350, if that is of any help for comparison purposes. They list no loads at all for VV N150, going straight from N140 for the lighter bullets to N160 for the heavier ones.



 Posted: Thu Oct 3rd, 2013 06:46 PM
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Paul B
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"You've lost me there. What difference does it make whether bullets are solids or soft points as far as load data is concerned?"

Xausa. What Paul Means by solids is they are monometal bullets, no lead core. They have to be loaded differently than conventional cup and core bullets.

The only data I have for the 140 gr. E-tip is for the .280 Rem. and it only shows data for Vhit N160. The start load should be OK but I'd be careful when approaching the max load.

Start: 50.0gr./2711 FPS Max: 54.0gr./2929 FPS

I would imaging the max for the 7x64 Brenneke would be about one grain less, give or take a half grain.
Powder charges for the 139 gr. Hornady GMX run just about the same and a half grain higher in the 7.65 Brenneke.
Dunno how much help this is but it's all I have.
Paul B.



 Posted: Thu Oct 3rd, 2013 10:04 PM
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Paul Tummers



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It makes a lot of difference when you send a lead core with a relatively thin jacket around it down a barrel or you do this with a solid gilding metal or copper plug;
The solid will not adapt as easy to the rifling as the jacketed lead core bullet will do which means that there is quite some difference in pressure building up.
It also makes sense to me, the solids need more jump as the lead core bullet to avoid an enormous pressure jump when seated close to the rifling.
An advice given to me what really makes sense is to chemically clean the barrelfrom any copper fouling before starting shooting any solids to minimize the resistance of the solid in the barrel.



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 Posted: Thu Oct 3rd, 2013 10:48 PM
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xausa
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This is a question of semantics. Since I have never used a monometal bullet, when you say "solid", I think "full metal jacket". My experience with "solids" comes from hunting in Africa in the 1970's, which pre-dates the advent of monometal bullets.

I am well aware of the difficulties in handloading monometal bullets and the pitfalls of using them in older weapons, particularly double rifles, which tend to bulge barrels or shed ribs.

I wonder why monometal bullets would be harder on a rifle barrel than armor piercing bullets, which have been shown to be easier on bores than conventional lead core bullets. I suppose the difference is the soft gilding metal jacket. I wonder why no one has thought of jacketing a monometal bullet with gilding metal to test the effect on barrel life.

I have to admit being curious as to what the purpose of the 150 grain 7mm solids might be. I know W.D.M. Bell used 7mm full metal jacketed bullets hunting elephants, but I don't think that is legal any more.



 Posted: Fri Oct 4th, 2013 05:11 AM
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Paul B
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"I have to admit being curious as to what the purpose of the 150 grain 7mm solids might be. I know W.D.M. Bell used 7mm full metal jacketed bullets hunting elephants, but I don't think that is legal any more."

because some states/areas require the use of those bullets by law because a certain bird, the California Condor, is supposed to be in danger from ingesting lead from crcasses and gut piles. Half of California has required them for a few years now and the state legislature has passed a law requiring on lead bullet for the entire state. Dunno if Governor Moonbeam has signed it into law yet. Portions of Arizona request hunters to voluntarily use them, nanely the Kaibab National Forest and Arizona Strip which is on the Arizona/Utah border. beautiful country BTW.
They say as California goes, so goe the rest of the country. God help us.
Paul B.



 Posted: Fri Oct 4th, 2013 06:59 AM
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Paul Tummers



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There is no advantage in using them in this caliber; It is the new Brandenburg county law who has forbidden the use of lead bullets in certain areas, so what remains are the non lead alternatives.
Those bullets are for using them in Brandenburg on deer and hogs.



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 Posted: Fri Oct 4th, 2013 10:48 AM
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It's this kind of nonsense which makes me glad to be 74 years old and unlikely to live long enough to see it spread.

The same kind of logic has led to the banning of lead shot for waterfowl and the crippling of untold thousands of ducks with steel shot, who then go off to die in agony.



 Posted: Fri Oct 4th, 2013 02:08 PM
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Paul B
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xausa wrote:
It's this kind of nonsense which makes me glad to be 74 years old and unlikely to live long enough to see it spread.

The same kind of logic has led to the banning of lead shot for waterfowl and the crippling of untold thousands of ducks with steel shot, who then go off to die in agony.


AMEN brother. I'm 75 and to see how the politicians have screwed up my country makes me sick to the soul. As that salsa commercial said, "Get a rope!"
Paul B.



 Posted: Sat Oct 12th, 2013 12:28 PM
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Glad I found this thread as I'm looking at a 7 X 64 this morning. Paul, I didn't know you had one but I mentioned my looking at one to you in an e-mail.

Paul B and xausa, I'm a bit younger than you two but I understand. I am reminded of what Churchill is supposed to have said and I will have to paraphrase, "I have lived a long and a good life but I do not care to repeat it. The standards have been too greatly degraded".



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 Posted: Sat Oct 12th, 2013 12:53 PM
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Paul Tummers



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I do not own a rifle myself in that caliber, but one of my friends has one and loaded under my supervision his rounds, using his dies and my press etc.
I am no friend of that hard kicking caliber with its noise at a sound level that hurts my ears.



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