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Accuracy in rifles
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 Posted: Tue Jul 1st, 2014 05:10 PM
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LarryW
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Since I just recently started with long guns, & cant give an
intelligent answer on the subject based on experience. IMHO,
I would have to say everything listed by the OP, & everything stated by everyone.
I just cant wrap my head around the "One Most" important. To me, it's everything all rolled into one, then it all comes down to the person behind the trigger??



 Posted: Tue Jul 1st, 2014 08:59 PM
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SansSouci
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A rifle can be extremely accurate, but with bad ammo, it won't hold a group. That would be the ammo's fault. The most accurate ammo won't help a rifle with an ill-fitted barrel & action. Of course, the only cure for a bad barrel is a new one.

I'd go with a superbly crafted barreled action that's expertly matched to an excellent stock.

The second most accurate rifle I've fired was a factory original Model 700 ADL in 7MM Rem Mag. Not a thing was doe to that rifle. It'd shoot well under an inch all day long.

The most accurate rifle I've fired is my Sako AV in 7MM Rem Mag. I've had its action bedded and its trigger worked to just under 3 lbs. That rifle will shoot ragged one-hole groups all day long. I had a friend who owned many custom rifles. He said that he had not a one that would shoot as good as my Sako.

With computer-aid manufacturing and good components; e.g., action, barrel, and stock, just about any off the shelf rifle is capable of incredible accuracy.

While I don't own a Tikka, from what I've read, one would be hard pressed to buy a more accurate rifle. Same with Savage. Probably same with most rifles.



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 Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2014 02:30 AM
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shastaboat
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None of them. Propper bedding and trigger pull!



 Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2014 03:27 AM
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mtman714
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Ya I'll second the trigger, you can have all the above, but if the trigger has a 1/8" of travel or breaks at 8.5 ps, or both all the rest means nota.

Last edited on Wed Jul 2nd, 2014 03:28 AM by mtman714



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 Posted: Sun Feb 7th, 2016 06:10 PM
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mrussel42
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I can't pick just 1 , they all play a roll in accuracy!



 Posted: Sun Feb 7th, 2016 11:49 PM
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ireload2
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I can give you a bad barrel and guarantee you will NEVER make it shoot.



 Posted: Mon Feb 8th, 2016 03:29 AM
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GlennNewick
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For me it is the barrel. If I take a Hart/Shilen/Broughton or the like, thread and chamber to a hundred year old Springfield or Mauser in a cartridge with many factory ammo choices (like 308 or 30-06). One of them will shoot well.

That said, it might need bedding to be at its best. A good shooter can work around many other faults like the trigger.



 Posted: Mon Feb 8th, 2016 07:02 PM
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old timer
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Myself I think it's combination.

I heard this story once.  BR shooter talking to gunsmith about building a BR rifle and he ask gunsmith can you build me a rifle to shoot in the 0's and gunsmith ask him can you shoot in the .0's.



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 Posted: Tue Feb 9th, 2016 02:00 PM
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Ruffian
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SKSwart48 wrote:
I'd say all of the above and add in the shooter

Have to agree with all of the above and shooter !



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 Posted: Tue Feb 9th, 2016 06:18 PM
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fguffey
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I have taken rifles to the range that did not like anything. That was the purpose of taking the rifle to the range. I have taken two new rifles to the range that had the same chamber, meaning both shot 300 Winchester Magnum ammo. One shot one hole groups the other shot groups like a shotgun. The rifle that shot patterns like a shotgun went back to Winchester.

The rifle that shot one hole groups liked everything. When changing ammo the groups moved but adjusting the scope took care of that.

F. Guffey



 Posted: Tue Feb 9th, 2016 10:04 PM
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wsmreloader
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If I had to pick ONLY one thing, it would be the barrel. But like others have said, it is a combination of everything working together, including< but not mentioned> the shooters ability. Take any one of those choices and make it "bad", then accuracy will suffer, even with everything else being "good".



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 Posted: Wed Feb 10th, 2016 05:59 PM
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TMan51
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SavageShooter wrote:
Barrel is by far the most important.

I've re-barreled a couple dogs, that turned into tack drivers. With no other change.



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 Posted: Wed Feb 10th, 2016 10:44 PM
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mtman714
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The sum of all the above. plus the shooter.



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 Posted: Wed Feb 10th, 2016 10:49 PM
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Rutersville
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I would have to say c. Ammo

I have seen cheap production rifles in every action shoot very well with the right ammo. Handloads to be specific.

I personally own several completely factory original rifles that will shoot a 1" group at 300yds if loaded with the right powder, brass prep, and precise seating depth.

My slightly upgraded (Timney trigger) 7mm 08 won't hold better than a 2" group at 100yds with factory ammo, but with 140gr Barnes TTSX .086 off the lands it shoots under 1/2" at 300 yds.



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 Posted: Wed Feb 10th, 2016 11:55 PM
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TMan51
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Rutersville wrote:
I personally own several completely factory original rifles that will shoot a 1" group at 300yds if loaded with the right powder, brass prep, and precise .

WOW !!

I've owned a couple in the last fifty years that would turn in a 1.5" group at 300yds, but even my M700 Varmint, I used for production class varmint bench shoots didn't do that well, and I won more than a few club and inter-club shoots with that. My Ruger M77 Predator will land more shots than not in 1.5" at 300yds. My CDL Whelen will do that with tree shot groups @ 300.

To have the luck to have several such shooters, you should buy a Mega Millions ticket or two.



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 Posted: Wed Feb 10th, 2016 11:55 PM
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TMan51
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LarryW wrote:

I just cant wrap my head around the "One Most" important. To me, it's everything all rolled into one, then it all comes down to the person behind the trigger??


The shooter has little to do with how well the rifle will shoot. Everything to do with how well the shooter can do with a given rifle.

I have rifles that are capable of exceptional accuracy, from .22LR to, currently, my Whelens. I also own rifles that are not as capable. My 77/357 and 77/44 are good examples.

No amount of scope power, bench hardware, or prayer, will make them shoot consistently under 2" for 5 shots, at 100yds. Maybe a couple tweaks will shrink that a bit, maybe not.

I'm pretty sure that's the case, as I can shoot my M336/.35 Remington, 5 shots, into a 1.25"-1.5" group, alternate to a 77/XX and shoot a 2" group, and repeat that over and over. Same scope magnification. The M77's have far better triggers, and faster lock time.

They just are not as accurate, no matter what I can do to supply shooter skill.

Last edited on Thu Feb 11th, 2016 12:12 AM by TMan51



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 Posted: Thu Feb 11th, 2016 12:14 AM
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Rutersville
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If I could post a picture I could show you the target from a 200 yd 5 shot .123" shot group from a .257 Roberts factory Ruger 77 lightweight.



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It's easy to shoot a 1 hole group, just fire one shot........


 Posted: Thu Feb 11th, 2016 12:26 AM
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Rutersville
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TMan51 wrote:


The shooter has little to do with how well the rifle will shoot. Everything to do with how well the shooter can do with a given rifle.


That is a very accurate statement!

Making the rifle go bang is not shooting.

My son in law can't keep a 1" group at 200 with my most accurate rifle, but he treats my daughter like a princess, so I'm ok with it.



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It's easy to shoot a 1 hole group, just fire one shot........


 Posted: Thu Feb 11th, 2016 01:17 AM
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president100
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Wow old thread,but a good topic.

1 A rifle is only as good as the person behind the trigger!

2 If the barrel is trash it doesn't matter how good anything else is.

3 If the rifleman and barrel are excellent then we can look at the ammo.

4 Harmonic tuning of sorts can be rather important on semi autos. If an M1A/M14 doesn't "ring" right it will shoot wrong. Playing with gas pistons on those can make a big difference too.

Optics/sights can make or break the whole thing too. IMO don't go too cheap but one does not need to spend thousands either, there are plenty of reasonably priced scopes that work just fine. I know of a $350 scope on Krieger barreled bolt action with a factory stock that shoots 3/4 inch at 300 yards.

Bedding can make or break a mediocre barrel, it will not Completely ruin the accuracy of a True stress relieved premium heavy barrel. But done right it May help.

A great trigger is very nice and makes shooting great groups Easier, But a really good rifleman will have good enough trigger control to work with almost any trigger. We get to see this regularly at CMP EIC matches. Folks try to "improve" their scores by cheating their triggers and get beat by Billy VT with his 7 Lb trigger regularly. :) :)
I love watching that young un do that! :) :)
I have asked Billy to let the cheaters try his trigger after he beats them! :)

Just my .02 YMMV



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 Posted: Thu Feb 11th, 2016 01:34 AM
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president100
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I forgot to mention these as listed in the OP.

Actions- Just re-barreled an unlikely beat to heck old milsurp that most would have tossed or sold to some other poor soul. It now shoots sub MOA, the barrel isn't "broke in" yet and load development has only just begun.

Bullets- Well they need to be properly stabilized by the proper twist rate. With the exception of varmint bullets over stabilization is Usually ok, under stabilization is not! Most bullets can be tuned to the barrel if properly stabilized. Some AP seem to have their core off center making matters unpredictable.



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