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Military 223 once fired primer pockets
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 Posted: Fri Oct 28th, 2016 11:57 PM
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frisbee
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AUGH!!!  As a new hand loader I have the simple hand tools (a drill and sore fingers) to use. Of all the dimensional information about hand loading, primer pocket info is hard to find. I did see a go/no go gauge but no measurements. I'm aware of the depth .118 - .122, but dia. (?)   Maybe my web surfing skills are not as good as I thought

The reason for the question is. The small primer pocket reamer tool I'm using seems to make a huge chamfer and I can install the primer with my finger if I ream to hard...  that's not right. So I have backed off the reaming and use the press, but sometimes the primer will NOT seat,  @#$% %$# $%&^@ (translation OH GOSH DARN) military crimp. (pull the press apart and start again)..  Note: most of the time I can feel the primer seat, but those few that are + or - got me to thinking what is the correct dimension. Consistency is the name of the game. right? of course. For now curiosity is getting the best of me and I prefer to live... Any input is much appreciated..

Also I'm in the market for a swager. Suggestions for a swager will help as there are a lot of them and would like to keep it under $100  or more if it comes in a case prep station then under $200.00

Friz (currently a Picky Primer Pocket Person)



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 Posted: Sat Oct 29th, 2016 12:58 AM
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Buff7mm
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frisbee wrote:
AUGH!!!  As a new hand loader I have the simple hand tools (a drill and sore fingers) to use. Of all the dimensional information about hand loading, primer pocket info is hard to find. I did see a go/no go gauge but no measurements. I'm aware of the depth .118 - .122, but dia. (?)   Maybe my web surfing skills are not as good as I thought

The reason for the question is. The small primer pocket reamer tool I'm using seems to make a huge chamfer and I can install the primer with my finger if I ream to hard...  that's not right. So I have backed off the reaming and use the press, but sometimes the primer will NOT seat,  @#$% %$# $%&^@ (translation OH GOSH DARN) military crimp. (pull the press apart and start again)..  Note: most of the time I can feel the primer seat, but those few that are + or - got me to thinking what is the correct dimension. Consistency is the name of the game. right? of course. For now curiosity is getting the best of me and I prefer to live... Any input is much appreciated..

Also I'm in the market for a swager. Suggestions for a swager will help as there are a lot of them and would like to keep it under $100  or more if it comes in a case prep station then under $200.00

Friz (currently a Picky Primer Pocket Person)


I'm no help on the first part but I've been using the RCBS swager #9481 and it is a little slow on the single stage press but my pockets seem to be uniform and the crimp is gone.



 Posted: Sat Oct 29th, 2016 01:04 AM
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Snuffy
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I have and have used the Lyman primer pocket tool as well, have to say I'm not impressed with it.

I now use the Hornady prep center and just cut the crimp out with the inside neck chamfering tool. Some here, use the Lyman VLD chamfering tool as well.



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 Posted: Sat Oct 29th, 2016 01:10 AM
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RobertMT
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The easiest and cheapest gauge is a small primer pocket uniformer, if it fits snug, primer should fit. It's also handy to know, Russian and CCI primers, run a little larger than rem, fed and win. So while pockets are tight use feds and when feds get loose, switch to CCI or Russian.

For swaging or cutting primer crimp, sort by headstamp, as each requires different adjustments/amount cut, this is most critical when swaging.



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 Posted: Sat Oct 29th, 2016 01:10 AM
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STIHL
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I don't see any diff in the depth of the cut. It may contribute to pockets wearing out faster but accuracy I've seen 0 issue. Now I cut all of mine out. It takes just a bump with the cutter to get the crimp out. Primers can be a little stubborn to seat in some cases but I just push them on in.



 Posted: Sat Oct 29th, 2016 01:16 AM
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Rockydog



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Try reaming only enough to remove the crimp. This would be about 1/3 or less into the depth of the pocket. Any deeper with out being dead on true will likely give you sloppy pockets.

I generally cut the military crimps out by using this Dremel bit in my cordless drill. (Using the Dremel tool gives too much chatter as it runs too fast.) I just stand the drill in my vise and use rubbermade gloves to grip the brass. I touch the primer pocket briefly on the end of the spinning bit and it's good to go. Note that the pic is about 3 times as big as the bit in real life. RD

Attachment: Dremel.jpg (Downloaded 202 times)



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 Posted: Sat Oct 29th, 2016 02:05 AM
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Charley



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I have and use an RCBS prep center, with a primer pocket uniformer. Simply bump the case onto the uniformer, cuts away the offending crimp without changing pocket dimensions. Never had an issue with fit. I work large and small crimped pockets that way. Old timers used to scrape the crimp away with a sharp knife. Check out some gun writing from the 1960/70s or so, and you will see plenty of references to that procedure.



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 Posted: Sat Oct 29th, 2016 02:39 AM
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HighBC
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Rockydog wrote:
Try reaming only enough to remove the crimp. This would be about 1/3 or less into the depth of the pocket. Any deeper with out being dead on true will likely give you sloppy pockets.

I generally cut the military crimps out by using this Dremel bit in my cordless drill. (Using the Dremel tool gives too much chatter as it runs too fast.) I just stand the drill in my vise and use rubbermade gloves to grip the brass. I touch the primer pocket briefly on the end of the spinning bit and it's good to go. Note that the pic is about 3 times as big as the bit in real life. RD


Just my opinion, but knowing or even measuring pockets is unnecessary and only makes an other wise simplistic process complicated and cumbersome.

I remove the crimp and prime with an deburing tool, works fine. I don't need to know what the measurements are, if it has enough meat to properly hold a primer, it's good to go. Too much messing with the pocket and there's a major risk of making an other wise sound pocket defect, same thing as flash holes, thus blowing a primer seal and messing up a bolt face.

My son and I just did a bunch of em up and shot a 10 round group that was right about 1/4".

HBC



 Posted: Sat Oct 29th, 2016 01:01 PM
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jm423
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Charley, quit throwing age around! I was in the pocketknife school until I bought a Herters swaging set, which worked fine until disappearing in a move. Replaced with RCBS swaging set, works great for me. Prefer swaging to cutting--no metal loss, slight radius at entrance helps start primer straight IMO.



 Posted: Sat Oct 29th, 2016 06:21 PM
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Charley



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Have an RCBS swager. I'd be as old as Noah when he built the ark by the time I finished swaging all my milsurp cases!



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 Posted: Sat Oct 29th, 2016 10:56 PM
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wingspar
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Charley wrote: I have and use an RCBS prep center, with a primer pocket uniformer. Simply bump the case onto the uniformer, cuts away the offending crimp without changing pocket dimensions. Never had an issue with fit. I work large and small crimped pockets that way. Old timers used to scrape the crimp away with a sharp knife. Check out some gun writing from the 1960/70s or so, and you will see plenty of references to that procedure.
I don’t have the RCBS prep center, but I do have the primer pocket uniformer that would be part of the prep center.  Chuck it up in a drill.  Works slick, but it is easy to go to far and ruin the brass.  I did not have good luck with the RCBS Swager.

The military primer crimp was the most difficult thing I have had to deal with in my short reloading career.  It was almost enough to give up trying to reload .223.

Last edited on Sat Oct 29th, 2016 10:58 PM by wingspar



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 Posted: Mon Oct 31st, 2016 02:32 AM
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frisbee
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Everybody; Thank you for the all the input. I'm looking into the RCBS or the Hornady swager, as for a prep center I gotta wait on that.

Friz



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So why did he duck when the bad guy threw the gun at him? (think B/W TV)


 Posted: Fri Dec 9th, 2016 01:29 AM
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riverman1
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I have the rcbs swager as well. I ordered it on eBay new for 31.00 best money I have spent. My fingers where sore after 15 mins using a drill so I feel your pain



 Posted: Mon Dec 19th, 2016 07:04 PM
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reload_223
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I've just used a 4 bladed countersink for years. Either in a drill press or with a cordless drill.Very rarely do I not get a primer to fit. I just cut off the crimp and leave a little chamfer. A bigger concern I've found in military once fired brass is the base diameter can be different even after sizing. Spend the money on a small base diameter die.



 Posted: Tue Dec 20th, 2016 09:09 PM
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cjb41
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Go with a RCBS Primer Pocket Swager Combo 2, they work very well for $34.00 at MidwayUSA



 Posted: Tue Jan 3rd, 2017 05:40 PM
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tmartter
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I use the Dillon Super Swage 600. This works great and is pretty fast. I mounted it to the side of my work bench and now as fast as i can slide the brass in and rotate the handle, I get a perfect primer pocket.

https://www.dillonprecision.com/super-swage-600_8_8_25263.html



 Posted: Wed Jan 4th, 2017 02:42 AM
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lscraig1968
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I borrowed my friends Dillon super swager and it works great. I received an RCBS case prep center for Christmas. I installed the Lyman pocket hole crimp remover into one of the positions. Now I can trim, inside/outside chamfer, and remove pocket hole crimp in about 30 seconds per case. Easy peasy

Last edited on Wed Jan 4th, 2017 02:44 AM by lscraig1968



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 Posted: Mon Jan 9th, 2017 07:03 PM
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Dickn52
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Get a Lyman Case prep tool. It has 5 stations that will do everything you need done.



 Posted: Tue Jan 10th, 2017 12:39 AM
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sbsats
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Frisbee, I agree with all the above. I have cut or swedged thousands of military brass and no matter what it's all a pain.
I have used everything you can think of over my years of loading my own. Trouble is... Unless you intend to use or do slot of military brass, you only have to do the primer pocket once.
Try your depriving tool to ream the crimp if that doesn't remove enough material, try a countersink Renee with a light touch on a few cases. Just the edges of the crimp. If your primer passes the edge and seats firmly, you're good to go.If that doesn't work and you have a bunch to do, the rcbs swedged or equivalent is worth the purchase. If you only have a few to do or can't afford the price of the equipment, PM me and let me know... I would be happy to swedge them for you. Just let me know

Last edited on Tue Jan 10th, 2017 12:45 AM by sbsats



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 Posted: Tue Jan 10th, 2017 12:48 AM
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sbsats
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Dicked52 ... Been a long, long time since I defended that armor. Glad to see another old Drill around here.



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