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Reduced Loads
 Moderated by: Slingshot, Rockydog, klallen, DesertMarine, -6 Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
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 Posted: Thu Jan 12th, 2017 08:01 PM
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.22-10-45
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Good article in latest Handloader magazine on reduced loads. One thing mentioned which I had never heard of before was the use of faster burning powder such as IMR4227 & Unique and cast bullet start loads for the caliber using jacketed bullets of same weight. For even more reduction in velocity, he recommended going next size smaller in case size & using cast start loads...For example, using cast start load for .250-3000 as a start load for the .257 Roberts using jacketed. Interesting. Has anyone tried this?

Last edited on Thu Jan 12th, 2017 08:02 PM by .22-10-45



 Posted: Thu Jan 12th, 2017 09:32 PM
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Damannoyed
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Depends on how far you want to "reduce".


A bullseye competition shooter blew a M1A into slivers a few years back using a "reduced recoil" load involving enough 4227 to almost 1/2-fill the case. Supposedly a common .308W "low-recoil" load.
Problem came when he accidentally double charged the case, didn't see powder plumb up to the shoulder, and put a bullet up there.
It only took one................

As far as Unique goes,,, google The Unique Load or The Red Dot Load. They are what is commonly termed "gallery loads". Both run something like 17gr in a full-size rifle case. They are often used with cast or half-jacket bullets.
You can also google that term "gallery loads", they've been around for a century, literally.

A dozen powders today of the Red-Dot-to-Unique burn rate could easily do the same Gallery Load work.

CAUTION: This post discusses loads or load data that may or may not be appropriate for your gun or for the cartridge(s) and components mentioned. Due to typos, variations in guns and components, and the abilities and judgment of users of this data, neither the writer, Handloadersbench.com, nor the staff of Handloadersbench.com assume any liability for damage or injury resulting from using this information. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO DUPLICATE THE DESCRIBED LOADS without first working them up from a published safe starting level charge while watching for pressure signs. If you don't know how to do that please don't use this data, for your own safety and the safety of others.



 Posted: Thu Jan 12th, 2017 11:21 PM
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cylinderman
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I'm a big fan of gallery loads but strictly use cast. Your question is more how to safely reduce jacketed loads. I have done this a few times in the past and my method has been to use the fastest powder that there is data for in that cartridge and use the starting charge and work down in the same manner you work up a load. Look for things as erratic ignition or large velocity spreads as your stopping point. I don't think I would reduce a jacketed bullet too much but if one wanted to download their 375H&H to 375 Win. level I see it very possible.



 Posted: Fri Jan 13th, 2017 03:00 AM
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Charley



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Look up data from Ed (C.E.) Harris, what he termed "The Load". First wrote about it in the 10th Edition of Handloader's Digest. He suggested 13.o grains of Red Dot in any cartridge 30 caliber and up, of the same or greater capacity of the .308. Could be used with jacketed or cast bullets. he later changed his recommendation to 16.0 grains of 2400. I've used both, and within their limits on cartridge type, I've had great results.
Hogdon also has a formula for using their H4895 for reduced loads in many rifle cartridges. I've used it some with success, but have used Harris' load more.



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 Posted: Fri Jan 13th, 2017 03:05 AM
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runfiverun
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I do it all the time.
223 loads work in both the 22-250 and the 220 swift.
I prefer IMR 4895 for that.

I have also used unique under jacketed bullets a few times, one of the last deer I shot in Utah was with my 8 mauser and unique under the speer 200gr soft point it was going about 1900 fps and I could hear that heavy bullet hit the buck at 75 yds.

mostly anymore I will use something like a 180gr bullet made from a 5.7 X 28 case on top of 17-18grs of 2400 in the 30 and 31 cal rifles.
it's hard to explain what it's like shooting them, maybe a 7.62 X 39 round in a 12-14 pound rifle would be close.



 Posted: Fri Jan 13th, 2017 03:26 AM
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Rockydog



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I use Trail Boss, IMR 4895, and Accurate 5744 for reduced loads in several rifles. I get very good accuracy using 30-30 IMR 4895 cast loads in 7.62x54R and 30-40 Krag with cast bullets. I've got .10 in powder per round, .035 in the primer, cast COWWs mean free bullets, and a fraction of a penny for lube or powder coat. So I'm shooting CF rifle for less than .15 per round. If I use shotgun powder I can get to about 8 cents. Why buy rimfire?



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 Posted: Sat Jan 14th, 2017 11:27 PM
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Old Cop
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Just got the Lyman 50th Anniversary Reloading manual. Almost every caliber has cast bullet loads.



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 Posted: Sun Jan 15th, 2017 02:53 AM
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RandyHK91
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I have loaded quite a few 30-06 with 190-200Gr Lead Boolits and AA5744 about 24 Gr and they are wonderful..Tried some 4198 and they doubled group size!



 Posted: Sun Jan 15th, 2017 07:30 PM
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Paul B
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One of my favorite .308 Win. loads is 25.0 gr. of H4895, Remington brass, winchester primer and the Lyman #311291 cast bullet seated to slightly engage the rifling. On a reasonably calm day, I can get 1.5 MOA groups at 250 yards. Not too bad for a Winchester M70 Youth Ranger that I restocked in a Ramline.
I loaded that same charge with 150 gr. Winchester Power points as a practice load for my wife's Ruger M77 RSI. Not all that accurate (RSI's are extremely fussy about ammo. At least the three I have are.) In a Remington 660 that same load does about .80" on average.
I also use that charge in a 30-06 with that same cast bullet. Have no idea of the velocity as I've never bothered to check but after a short wait, if that bullet from the 06 hit the upper 25 percent of a 350 meter pig silhouette, that pig will very slowly topple over. Frankly, it still amazes me that I can actually hit that pig at all considering how slow that bullet has to be moving. :confused:
Oh well, they're fun to shoot.
Paul B.



 Posted: Sun Jan 15th, 2017 08:59 PM
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swampratt
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yep H4895 is good stuff for reduced loads.
243 mossberg 100 atr.
H-4895,87 V-Max CCI 200 primers R-P cases Fulll length sized.
3 shot groups all chambered from the magazine no rest between the 3 shot string.

23.5 gr =FPS  2,197.. 2,193.. 2,183.  3.090" 200 yard group for 3 shots.

24.0 gr= 2,230..  2,235..  2,222. 4.475" 200 yards 3 shots

24.5 gr=  2,261.. 2,252.. 2,243.  1.670" 200 yards 3 shots. 1.335" 100 yard 4 shots.



 Posted: Mon Jan 16th, 2017 02:32 AM
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I've used 3031 frequently for reduced loads. I started doing it in the 6mm Remington when I read that Remington did it in the 6mm. I then experimented with other cartridges and had good luck. Many relatively fast burning single base powders can be used with reduced charges. Just don't try it with most ball powders or powders slower burning than 4895. Cast bullet loading manuals will give you some good ideas. Just don't try to slow a jacketed bullet down to the point that it sticks in the barrel. PS. This has been 40 years ago that I started experimenting with reduced loads. IMHO Since the introduction of Trail Boss it doesn't make much sense to use anything else for reduced loads.



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 Posted: Thu Feb 16th, 2017 05:53 PM
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Nisqually6.5
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I am a big fan of reduced loads. I have nitrocarburized barrels and coat bullets with HBN to reduce barrel wear but reduced loads can provide a lot of practice with little damage. Another goal I have is to see where the bullets land in the scope downrange. Reduced loads, with reduced recoil, allow you to recover and see where they hit. My latest projects have been a .243 WSM, 6mm Remington and .204 Ruger with reduced loads featuring IMR 4759 and Accurate 5744. Use magnum primers. I shot a reduced load of 15.5 gr of 5744 in my .20 PPC with 32 gr Hornady and CCI 450 primers (2789 fps).



 Posted: Sun Feb 19th, 2017 12:36 PM
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.22-10-45
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Thanks everyone for very informative replys! Nisqually6.5...what is HBN? I am using the NECO moly-coat methos to impact coat both cast & jacketed rifle bullets.



 Posted: Sun Feb 19th, 2017 03:03 PM
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Nisqually6.5
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Hexigonal Boron Nitride is a dry lubricant, like Moly Sulfide, that coats bullets with a fine white powder. I usually have to tell people that they are coated bullets because they don't figure it out until they grab a bullet by the ogive and it slips out of their fingers. There is a brief article in the Midway Blog:
http://www.mssblog.com/

I apply it with steel birdshot in a tumbler just like Moly, the NECO process exactly.



 Posted: Sun Feb 19th, 2017 03:17 PM
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Nisqually6.5
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Reduced loads are not used enough. At ranges under 200 yards they are great practice, especially in barrel burners. And you can see where they hit!

6.5 WSM
85 Sierra HP 2.3 g 5744 2729 21.0SD CCI 250

204 Ruger great at ground squirrels:
24 NTX IMR 4759 14.00gr 2866.8 20.8SD CCI450
It still has twice the energy at 100yd of .17HMR

243 WSSM
55gr Sierra BlitzKing Acc 5744 2.2945 OAL 27.0 gr 3083 18.7SD R 9 ½ 10/24/16



 Posted: Sun Feb 19th, 2017 09:03 PM
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I have a few reduced loads in 30-06 and .223. I posted them somewhere on here... Anyway, I use Trailboss and keep reducing the loads until the bullet gets stuck into the end of the barrel, then go back up a half grain or so. I shoot the Lee 170gr FP/GC in 30-06 and a 40 grain soft point jacketed Sierra in the .223. The 30-06 clocks about 600 fps and the .223 a little faster. You can shoot them inside without ear protection and your ears won't ring. I use them to kil rabbits in the back yard that eat my wife's flowers... Nobody knows when I am shooting...



 Posted: Sun Feb 19th, 2017 09:13 PM
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DarkShooter
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Charley wrote:
Look up data from Ed (C.E.) Harris, what he termed "The Load". First wrote about it in the 10th Edition of Handloader's Digest. He suggested 13.o grains of Red Dot in any cartridge 30 caliber and up, of the same or greater capacity of the .308. Could be used with jacketed or cast bullets. he later changed his recommendation to 16.0 grains of 2400. I've used both, and within their limits on cartridge type, I've had great results.
Hogdon also has a formula for using their H4895 for reduced loads in many rifle cartridges. I've used it some with success, but have used Harris' load more.


Same here.

I've used the Ed Harris's Red Dot and 2400 loads (AKA "The Load" & "The Universal Load") in 8x57, 7.62x54R with cast and
jacketed and .45/70 with just cast.

It's a lot of fun plinking with these, especially with the Mausers and Mosin Nagants. I get 5 shot in 1" at 50 yards but I gotta adjust the rear sight up a bit.



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 Posted: Mon Feb 20th, 2017 05:24 AM
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chigger
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Has anyone worked up a recipe for reduced loads in 300BLK, 308, or 556 using CFE223 Powder?



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 Posted: Mon Feb 20th, 2017 07:40 AM
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runfiverun
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that powder is a coated ball type.
you can reduce it some or use it in a full case situation.
it's slow enough that a case full in the 300 BO might not burn very well.
if your shooting a bolt action and want reduced velocity's [sub sonic] the faster shot shell powders from bulls-eye up to about AA#-9 will work very well.

if you want to shoot an AR type rifle then 4227 would be the powder to look at depending on your gas tube length.
with a carbine or pistol length tube it will do both sub and super sonic pretty easily with 100% function.

for the 308 and 223 sub sonic in bolt guns are easily done with the faster powders once again.
unique will work in both of them.
and can easily push the 223 up into the 2200 fps area with the lighter bullets.

stuff like cfe-223 just doesn't get into a high enough pressure zone to burn well at the reduced velocity's, which can lead to other problems.



 Posted: Mon Feb 20th, 2017 03:46 PM
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chigger
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thank you for the information. I really like the CFE223 for full loads with the 308. Just wasn't sure about reducing for subs. I have yet to work up a recipe for a full load in 300BLK yet either. Its hard when you have to drive 2.5 hrs to a range just to try out 10 rnds or so.....lol



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