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Ring around the bullet. WHY?
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 Posted: Fri Feb 3rd, 2017 10:37 PM
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zzrguy
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Well I've been reloading for awhile but mostly for handguns ive just got a set of RCBS 223 AR I was setting them up last night and im getting a ring around my bullet. I had this problem with another bottle rifle I load but since I really dont shoot that gun much so I forgot about the issue till this.
Any one have a clue of is cause this?
http://s44.photobucket.com/user/zzr1200guy/media/20170203_170354_zpswqjmvalb.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0



 Posted: Fri Feb 3rd, 2017 10:43 PM
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swampratt
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That is where the seater stem touches the bullet.
there is sometimes 80 psi or more pushing on the bullet to make it seat.
No problems with the ring.



 Posted: Fri Feb 3rd, 2017 11:07 PM
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zzrguy
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swampratt wrote:
That is where the seater stem touches the bullet.
there is sometimes 80 psi or more pushing on the bullet to make it seat.
No problems with the ring.


It is quite deep you can definitly feel it with your finger and nail. There got to be a reason. My friend has the same dies and not issue.



 Posted: Fri Feb 3rd, 2017 11:26 PM
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olyeller
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Are you seating bullet and crimping in same step?
Are you chamfering case mouth during case prep?
What is you buddy doing or using differently than you?



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 Posted: Fri Feb 3rd, 2017 11:31 PM
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Rockydog



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But does your friend have the same bullets? Some bullets have softer jackets than other brands. I've loaded thousands of rounds in a bunch of calibers without ever seeing this.

Pull your seater stem out and compare its shape to the shape of the bullet. If you are going to be loading lots of these you can coat the bullet with two coats of paste wax, fill the seater stem with JB weld, insert the bullet and let the JB harden. Pop the bullet out and you have a custom fit seater for that model of bullet only. A bit of heat on the seater stem will allow the JB to be removed.

In all honesty I'd leave it the way it is or perhaps dull the edge of the stem just a bit. The minor scrape on the nose of a bullet is of minimal consequence compared to a ding on the base.

One other thing. Are you partially turning the bullet as you seat to assure straight seating? If so, lift the press handle slightly before you turn to take the pressure off of the bullet as you turn it. Turning with the seater down might do this.



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 Posted: Fri Feb 3rd, 2017 11:35 PM
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zzrguy
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That sound like it the issue. I've been know to be a little heavy on my crimp on my steight wall cases. I'll need to do a little more set up and see if that fixes it. Thanks for the help



 Posted: Fri Feb 3rd, 2017 11:46 PM
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olyeller
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OK then, if you are seating and crimping then you need to back the die out a little and ease up on the crimp.



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 Posted: Sat Feb 4th, 2017 12:24 AM
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HighBC
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Yep, if you're seating and crimping the same step then the crimp is making contact with the case mouth a little early, thus causing the bullet to seat while the crimp is being applied.

You do know that unless you've experienced problems with bullet set back, that there's no reason to crimp. I don't crimp, and a lot of other reloader's I know have never crimped for their AR's either.

HBC



 Posted: Sat Feb 4th, 2017 01:13 AM
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woodsman777



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RCBS has a known problem with their seating stems
The stem of your die and the ogive of your bullet don't match.
Four different times RCBS has sent me new free of charge seating stems for 4 different die sets because of this problem
Which had the exact same profile as the old ones.
The fix turned out to be to take Emory cloth, Chuck the stem up in a drill and hone the inside of the stem until you have a profile that suits your needs, then Polish it.
I kept the second stem original to match other olives I may encounter



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 Posted: Sat Feb 4th, 2017 01:47 AM
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zzrguy
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HighBC wrote:
Yep, if you're seating and crimping the same step then the crimp is making contact with the case mouth a little early, thus causing the bullet to seat while the crimp is being applied.

You do know that unless you've experienced problems with bullet set back, that there's no reason to crimp. I don't crimp, and a lot of other reloader's I know have never crimped for their AR's either.

HBC

Thank I never knew that I had never read that anywhere. Now you think I a will need a crimp on a 35 Remington.

Last edited on Sat Feb 4th, 2017 01:52 AM by zzrguy



 Posted: Sat Feb 4th, 2017 07:04 AM
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Lost-One
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woodsman777 wrote: RCBS has a known problem with their seating stems
The stem of your die and the ogive of your bullet don't match.
Four different times RCBS has sent me new free of charge seating stems for 4 different die sets because of this problem
Which had the exact same profile as the old ones.
The fix turned out to be to take Emory cloth, Chuck the stem up in a drill and hone the inside of the stem until you have a profile that suits your needs, then Polish it.
I kept the second stem original to match other olives I may encounter

I tried a set of RCBS dies I had gotten in for 7mm Rem Mag. and found I had the same issue so the next day I went and bought a set of Redding dies that didn't have this problem. Not saying to buy Redding, I am saying before I took the time to try to fix it I had bought a set of Reddings THEN took the time to try and fix the RCBS seating stem.

I was reloading some 7mm SST's when it happened.  After getting the Redding dies I decided to try to fix the issue I had with the RCBS seating stem so I ended up chucking the stem up in a drill then chucking up a polishing tip in my dremel tool and used a very mild polishing compound on it, with the drill turning the stem one way and the dremel turning the polishing tip the other I was able to polish out the stem to where it no longer left marks on the Hornady SST bullets which have a reputation as a very soft copper on them.

After testing it out and finding it was doing what I wanted I then put some cold blueing on the stem and polished it to a high luster to give it some rust protection. I have tried 3 different type of bullets (Hornady SST, Interlock and ELD-X) and the stem has worked great for all of them so far. I basically took the V shape on the inside of the stem and slowly worked it into a bell shape that was rounded rather than the sharp edge that was on the entrance to the V shape. 


Last edited on Sat Feb 4th, 2017 07:11 AM by Lost-One



 Posted: Sat Feb 4th, 2017 11:58 AM
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swampratt
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I polished and modded my seating stems with Cratex.

I have been porting heads since I was 18 and using Cratex then.

most dremel kits have it.
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/power-tools-accessories/rubber-abrasive-tools/rubber-abrasive-bullet-points/cratex-replacement-bullet-points-prod41792.aspx

You may not need a crimp on a 35 remington.
Kind of matters how much neck tension you have.
My lapua cases have 85 psi in my .308 and some winchester cases can be as low as 20 psi.
That is with no crimp.



 Posted: Wed Feb 15th, 2017 10:35 PM
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zzrguy
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Well I back off the crimp and it worked no more ring. But man these case need to be trimmed my 30-06 has no trouble feed and extracting but these 223 didnt feed and jammed up the actoin when i tapped them in with the forward assist.:



 Posted: Thu Feb 16th, 2017 11:59 AM
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swampratt
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HHHMMMM!
You know you can crimp to the point where the case neck below the crimp gets pushed down and fattens the case.
You need to be pretty long on the case neck length to start jamming.

I would color the entire case with black sharpie and feed it into the chamber and then extract it and see where the case is touching.

I would also take my dial calipers and accurately measure the case neck with the bullet loaded. I would measure the base all the way to the crimp.

Take another loaded .223 round and this time do not crimp it and measure the case neck OD.

Unless your 223 are .020" longer than max I would not think you would see an issue.
Maybe my bolt guns are generous though and your AR is tight.



 Posted: Thu Feb 16th, 2017 01:55 PM
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zzrguy
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I trimed it to the max lenght and it would jam. I then trimmed it down just shy of Minimum and it feeds fine, but the case is no where near cannelure on the bullet. Ill post some pics when I get a chance.



 Posted: Sun Feb 19th, 2017 09:35 PM
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zzrguy
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Ok heres a picture.


I cut the cases down to 1.750"
And the COL was set at 2.200

Last edited on Sun Feb 19th, 2017 09:48 PM by zzrguy



 Posted: Sun Feb 19th, 2017 09:54 PM
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Rockydog



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zzrguy, I have a few questions andI'm not trying to be critical here, just trying to help you out and need some info.

Are the cases in the pic all trimmed to the same length? Why are the two cases on the right standing at a angle? Are the primers in these cases seated flush? It almost appears that the bullet in that case is seated at an angle too.



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 Posted: Sun Feb 19th, 2017 10:30 PM
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zzrguy
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Rockydog wrote:
zzrguy, I have a few questions andI'm not trying to be critical here, just trying to help you out and need some info.

Are the cases in the pic all trimmed to the same length? Why are the two cases on the right standing at a angle? Are the primers in these cases seated flush? It almost appears that the bullet in that case is seated at an angle too.

The first two on the left the bullets are to seatted the cannelure but are way short for the COL the others are trimmed aswell and with the proper COL. as for why they look like they are leaning it just the picture none of them have primmers.


Im very thick skinned.
I load mostly straight wall cartridges the bottle neck so thats what brought me to this site to learn more about it.


Wow i just relooked at that picture boy it a bad pcture I'll have to take a new one when I get home.

Last edited on Sun Feb 19th, 2017 10:32 PM by zzrguy



 Posted: Sun Feb 19th, 2017 10:53 PM
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Lost-One
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zz for some reason though the brass still looks like it was trimmed on a slant. Looking at the center and the far right both appear that way whereas the one between them appears to be trimmed even.

Which trimmer are you using?



 Posted: Sun Feb 19th, 2017 11:46 PM
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zzrguy
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Lost-One wrote:
zz for some reason though the brass still looks like it was trimmed on a slant. Looking at the center and the far right both appear that way whereas the one between them appears to be trimmed even.

Which trimmer are you using?


That is totally possible I dont have trimmer as of yet I used a casemouth rimmer. I ordered the hornady trimmer just last week.

Last edited on Sun Feb 19th, 2017 11:47 PM by zzrguy



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