The Handloaders Bench Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register
The Handloaders Bench > Metallic cartridge reloading > Reloading for rifles > Just finished my latest build on a Savage action

Welcome to HandloadersBench.com. You will receive a activation email with a link in it to activate your account. If you don't receive the email check your spam or junk folders. Email servers look at our email as spam. Our mission here is to provide a place for those interested in the hobby of Reloading Ammunition. We offer a series of forums where they can ask questions, share answers, and highlight successes & failures so that others can learn. If you join our site please be aware that front porch rules apply. If you wouldn't say it on your front porch with grandma, your pastor and your 12 year old niece present it doesn't belong here. The Golden Rule applies. If you can live within those guidelines, Welcome Aboard! Spammers, trolls, and flamers will not last long here, your time would be better spent looking for a board where those traits are acceptable. HB Administration

Just finished my latest build on a Savage action
 Moderated by: Slingshot, Rockydog, klallen, DesertMarine, -6 Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
 New Topic   Reply   Printer Friendly 
 Rate Topic 
AuthorPost
 Posted: Tue Feb 28th, 2017 05:14 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
1st Post
dadajack
Senior Member


Joined: Sun Sep 29th, 2013
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 1648
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: Rimmed
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I was hoping you guys could either confirm, or deny my findings for the 223 Remington as it pertains to bullet weight and powder choice. I did my barrel break in and some load development with three different bullets last weekend for my latest Savage build. I found RL-15 and Varget to be the most accurate with 73 and 77 grain projectiles regardless of if I cleaned between groups or not. I shot the 80 grain pills I have the throat cut for, and they shot pretty medicore comparitively speaking. I'm not going to post groups because sometimes people question if I am showing off, or legitimately trying to get feedback, but suffice it to say, the gun will shoot.

The basis of the gun was to shoot the 80 grain Nosler CC at 2.400 OAL, which puts the ogive within 0.010" of the 69 and 77 grain SMKs, so no need to jump them a mile, or load them out so long I do not get full bearing surface contact in the case neck. Every load I shot was at 0.010" off the lands, which is different than what I normally do, which is 0.015" to get a baseline max charge/accuracy node establishment with a quasi OCW method. Well, the H4895 did not perform as well as I had hoped. So, do you guys with a lot of H4895 under your belts have the same opinion of the powder as I do? I think it is great for light to medium weight projectiles, but not so awesome for heavy for caliber pills. If you've seen this, or had guns shoot H4895 with heavy pills better than anything else, let me know. Looking forward to your feedback.

*Specs, if interested:

Shilen 28" threaded for suppressor 4 groove ratchet rifled barrel.

New Savage 12 Stainless Target action and trigger, no adjustments made yet.

HS Precision full length aluminum block torqued to 65 in/lb

Warne steel 20 MOA rail under a Vortex HS-T 6-24x50 until my Golden Eagle arrives later this fall.

Last edited on Tue Feb 28th, 2017 05:17 AM by dadajack



____________________
National sovereignty is not a political matter. Our laws are not subject to dismissal because your virtue signaling, simple-minded, self-loathing, America hating view on immigration makes you feel like you are better than someone else. You aren't.


 Posted: Tue Feb 28th, 2017 12:40 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
2nd Post
swampratt
Senior Member


Joined: Mon Nov 30th, 2009
Location: Yukon, Oklahoma USA
Posts: 4505
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: .308 win.
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I never thought you were showing off and if you were to me that is a good thing gives others hope in finding a load.

And just puts more good data out there.
I would find it a bit rude if someone balked at my groups and load data I posted.

My 223 is 1:9 and did not really care for the long bullets say 69gr and up. 60gr and 55 gr V-Max flat base bullets it loves and H4895 is top choice.

I did some shooting at 100 and 200 for best groups the 100 yard stuff could not tell me what was best as all were pretty fair.

so Off to 200 yards to test the same loads.. That is where you find what really works.
Most groups were 3/4" at 100 yards or less than that.

Move to 200 and some of those 3/4" groups go to 4" and some stay at 3/4" .

SO all i can say is test at 200.
And chill some of those loads in an ice chest or lunch bag with some ice in a baggie or something to cool the rounds off.

I found at certain temps the varget shot better than any powder i tried.
You change that temp 30 degrees and all bets are off.

Varget has done that to me in many calibers.

Nice looking rig BTW.
What is a ratchet rifled barrel?
What is your take on the 5R



 Posted: Tue Feb 28th, 2017 01:07 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
3rd Post
win 86
Full Member


Joined: Mon Dec 16th, 2013
Location: Idaho USA
Posts: 900
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 45-70, 338 win mag, 30-06, 300 rum, 22-250, 243 win, ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

wow, that looks like FUN, bet you can put 20rds inside a dime @ 100yrds. like to see that pic. cool, 86



 Posted: Tue Feb 28th, 2017 02:44 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
4th Post
olyeller
Master Handloader


Joined: Sun Nov 22nd, 2009
Location: Just West Of Bruzdenbleedin, Texas USA
Posts: 4071
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 270Win ...
Status: 
Online

  back to top

Nice :cool:
Looking forward to seeing it at Breck.



____________________
"Wimachtendienk, Wingolauchsik, Witahemui”

He who knows not and knows not that he knows not, is a fool.
He who knows not and knows he knows not is wise.


 Posted: Tue Feb 28th, 2017 03:06 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
5th Post
STIHL
Senior Member
 

Joined: Sun Jan 24th, 2016
Location: East Central, Mississippi, USA
Posts: 1222
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: Anything that goes boom.
Status: 
Online

  back to top

From what I've seen with the .223 the faster powders are working better for the long and heavies and the slower powders are working well for my lighter bullets. Backwards to the way I've seen everything else work like 308 and 30-06 and so on. I've had some awesome results with CFE .223 with 55,60 vmax, and decent with the 69 BTHP. Believe the 69 would perform better with another powder of a faster burn rate. Still developing loads for it. The 55 and 60 are shooting .500-.625 groups consistently shot a 5 shot group off a cold barrel that was .600 and the 4 shots after the cold bore shot went into one ragged hole that came out to .370. With that said I built this AR to shoot 75 grain BTHP. Best I've done with those is around .750. I'm still working on this load as barrel has just got broke in right and the groups have tightened up over the last two weekends. I'm going to try some varget and IMR 4895 behind the 75s in the next couple of weeks to see if this theory is holding true. My AR is built off an aero precision enhanced upper with a 20 inch full stainless Wilson combat bull barrel think the muzzle is .920 diameter, and a 3 lb timney trigger. weighs about 13 pounds. it's not equal to your platform but maybe it can serve as a reference.

I've got some H4895 under my belt in 308 and it's outshooting varget with 168 a max. I'm still in process of verification of the load and se if I can repeat the previous results.

One of those finicky things, different guns like different powders. so much comes into play to get those one hole groups it's much needed blowing but once you have it you have it whipped then.

And I'll have to agree with swampratt again on this. Varget will get stupid when temp changes 20-30 degrees. I've got 2 loads in varget 50-70 degrees and a 70-100 degree load. Shoot the 50-70 load at 90 degrees and your going to pick up about 100-125 fps and see start of pressure signs, and accuracy goes from .5 inch to 1.5 MOA

Last edited on Tue Feb 28th, 2017 03:11 PM by STIHL



 Posted: Tue Feb 28th, 2017 05:09 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
6th Post
RobertMT
Master Handloader


Joined: Sat Jan 17th, 2009
Location: Columbia Falls, MT
Posts: 5728
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 270wsm ...
Status: 
Online

  back to top

What twist is your barrel? I gave up on the Hornady 75gr BTHP, after first 1,000 and went with 77gr and haven't looked back. Benchmark gave me best groups, with 75gr, but if it doesn't shoot under 1/2, it's not worth time or barrel wear.

H4895 works very well with heavier bullets, you have to run it hard though. Slower powders like 4320 and 4064, run out of room, for AR and mag length rounds, with limit being how much do you compress load. Varget hasn't preformed as well, as 4320, for me. RL15 can be finicky with heat. In AR, it's not so much outside temp, as how long rounds set in hot chamber.



____________________
Fake news sites = sources of information, not censored by those currently in power.

MSM = sources of misinformation, approved by those currently in power.

It's only a conspiracy theory, if it's not true.

Citizens are armed, subjects aren't.


 Posted: Tue Feb 28th, 2017 06:12 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
7th Post
dadajack
Senior Member


Joined: Sun Sep 29th, 2013
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 1648
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: Rimmed
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

It's an 8 twist with an 11 degree crown. I didn't measure the groups I shot during breakin, but a couple were worth investigating. My velocities were well below what I was hoping for, but I think the reduced drag of this barrel will require a bit more powder to get over 2800 with the 75-80 grainers. Only have 75 rounds through it so far, and will definitely refine my RL-15 load with the 77 SMK.

Here's the target from the breakin at 100 yards. Top row shot One of each charge weight at first target, then three shot groups with a clean between each group. The second row was shot ten into the first diamond, then five shots, one of each charge round robin with cleans between each five shots.



____________________
National sovereignty is not a political matter. Our laws are not subject to dismissal because your virtue signaling, simple-minded, self-loathing, America hating view on immigration makes you feel like you are better than someone else. You aren't.


 Posted: Tue Feb 28th, 2017 07:20 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
8th Post
swampratt
Senior Member


Joined: Mon Nov 30th, 2009
Location: Yukon, Oklahoma USA
Posts: 4505
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: .308 win.
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Thanks for sharing the target.
I do not remember my velocities with the 69 and 75 gr .. I may not have cronied them.
100 yard stuff looked lookse ok but 200 yard not so good and the 55gr would hold better groups.

I have seen 1:7 twist shoot excellent with the 55gr V-max bullets.
I got into the higher BC game and purchased 69gr TMK bullets and others and the 55 V-Max kept out shooting them and less drop also.
I only shot to 500 yards so I would assume you are going farther.

It may kill you to do it but when you get out and stretch it's legs try a 55 or 60 gr V-Max flat base.

Daughter shot for the first time last week and was ringing steel at 500 yards with the savage Axis and 55 V-max.
Wind was brutal also 20-30 MPH gusts.. shaking the car as she was shooting.. yea the top of the car was the rest.

I underestimated that 55gr because of the BC numbers.
But tighter groups are tighter groups.

Looks like that gun is shooting very well dadajack.

What is your ultimate goal for it?



 Posted: Tue Feb 28th, 2017 07:34 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
9th Post
golong
Full Member


Joined: Wed Dec 7th, 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 318
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: Any bolt action, but I get a kick out of ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Build and hits are looking good!

Will be interested to learn how you like the Golden Eagle. Assuming the ECR-1 reticle?



____________________

Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.
-Winston Churchill


 Posted: Wed Mar 1st, 2017 12:17 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
10th Post
dadajack
Senior Member


Joined: Sun Sep 29th, 2013
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 1648
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: Rimmed
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

My longest range around here is only 600 yards, so I kinda envision this being a FTR limited build, under 15 pounds or whatever the limit is. I am absolutely not afraid of flat base bullets, and bet this tube would shoot some varmit tipped 50 grain bullets very, very well out to 300, maybe further. The wind is the culprit, as you very well know, so boat tails (and especially the 11 degree BTs on these long ones) really do help when you are already so limited on BC values compared to the 6mm and 6.5mm projectiles. But, I love a challenge, and I love the 223 Remington, which is exactly why I built this instead of another 6.5 or 6 Dasher. I am afraid the 6 Dasher will be my next one though. I have .224, .264, and .284 precision builds so far. Although, it wouldn't be too far of a stretch to see me discussing my new 308 build either... :wink:

Edit: sorry for missing your question there, yes it is the EBR-1, 60x on the high end of magnification. Might be able to see them tiny .224 holes out there on them long shoots... :lol:

Last edited on Wed Mar 1st, 2017 12:18 AM by dadajack



____________________
National sovereignty is not a political matter. Our laws are not subject to dismissal because your virtue signaling, simple-minded, self-loathing, America hating view on immigration makes you feel like you are better than someone else. You aren't.


 Posted: Wed Mar 1st, 2017 12:31 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
11th Post
Rockydog



Joined: Tue Jul 26th, 2005
Location: 160 Miles SW Of The Frozen Tundra, Wisconsin USA
Posts: 15196
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 8mm Mauser
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I've had my best groups in the .223 using H322 powder but have not shot bullets heavier than 60 grain.. Also had good luck with IMR 3031. Both are significantly faster powders than the H4985. If STIHL is right and faster powders work better for the heavies I'd try the H322 first. RD



____________________
“Those that beat their rifles into plow shares will plow for those who didn’t”. Jefferson

Light hunting rifles; Gravity is permanent, recoil is temporary.Your Choice


 Posted: Wed Mar 1st, 2017 12:33 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
12th Post
dadajack
Senior Member


Joined: Sun Sep 29th, 2013
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 1648
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: Rimmed
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

The only issue I raise with faster powders for heavier bullets is load density compared to chamber pressure. I don't think I would get the velocity I want from something too much faster than Varget or 8208 XBR. I might pick up a pound for my AR though, and give it a go with the 69 grain SMKs it loves so much.



____________________
National sovereignty is not a political matter. Our laws are not subject to dismissal because your virtue signaling, simple-minded, self-loathing, America hating view on immigration makes you feel like you are better than someone else. You aren't.


 Posted: Wed Mar 1st, 2017 01:20 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
13th Post
STIHL
Senior Member
 

Joined: Sun Jan 24th, 2016
Location: East Central, Mississippi, USA
Posts: 1222
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: Anything that goes boom.
Status: 
Online

  back to top

It's a theory anyway. In my mind I shouldn't be getting results like I'm getting with the slow burn of the cfe223 and 55 grain pills. Shooting them on my accuracy node at 2885 average fps. Maybe my gun is a oddball.

I decided to shoot lighter projectiles with the CFE to see if it performed similar or worse compared to the 75BTHP. My 75 grain load is a MOA load so it's not a horrible load either. But it won't do what I've done with the 55 and 60 grain vmax. I just got around the 250 round mark through it so I may have better results now that It's seasoned. Maybe I just happened to hit it just right where it broke in around the 200 round mark and settled in. This is a question only answered by one thing load a round of 75s and see what it will do with a couple 5 round groups. If it shoots to .5 inch then I'll know it was the barrel breaking in. If I repeat the same .75 best to 1" average of that load then it's either a bullet problem or powder problem so I'm going to test that theory and work up a load in varget and H4895 and see if my groups shrink or go to 2-3 inches.

I know it doesn't sound right but I'm not giving up on the 75s yet I've got about 5-6 powders that I can try before I give up on the bullets and try a 77 SMK. I've got about 500 of the 75s left so I'm gonna see before I write them off as a loss.

But it is an interesting subject that you have brought up. Have to do some more thinking and testing on this subject.

Are you just set on shooting 4895 or were you just wondering in general what others had found? I was just consulting my manual here and I find H4895 is the fastest burn rate listed for the 80 gr. Reloaded 15 is mid range and varget is toward the lower end of the burn rate. With that being said my theory ain't holding much water for your precision machine, that's awesome by the way. So my theory may work for my rifle but maybe complete opposite to yours. This is just me thinking out loud, I'll shut up now.

Last edited on Wed Mar 1st, 2017 01:34 AM by STIHL



 Posted: Wed Mar 1st, 2017 02:16 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
14th Post
dadajack
Senior Member


Joined: Sun Sep 29th, 2013
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 1648
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: Rimmed
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

What twist is your AR? I have a 1-8" Wylde I built a while back. 20" AR Stoner on Aero Precision upper and Spikes Jolly Roger lower. I went kinda all out with some PWS buffer tube, CMC drop in trigger, single stage, 3# as well. The scope on the rifle pictured above will go in a American Tactical Recon 20 MOA QD mount when the aforementioned Golden Eagle arrives. Heres the rifle with a turkey for your enjoyment. No, the turkey is not in danger as it is my mom's pet...



____________________
National sovereignty is not a political matter. Our laws are not subject to dismissal because your virtue signaling, simple-minded, self-loathing, America hating view on immigration makes you feel like you are better than someone else. You aren't.


 Posted: Wed Mar 1st, 2017 03:13 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
15th Post
HighBC
Full Member
 

Joined: Tue Jun 21st, 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 736
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 7mm RM
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Don't hesitate to post your groups, that's viable information for others to utilize for their rigs and loads. And if anyone were to question your motive just ignore those people, this forum is reliant upon our results to be useful to all.

BTW, nice rig.

HBC



 Posted: Wed Mar 1st, 2017 04:04 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
16th Post
dadajack
Senior Member


Joined: Sun Sep 29th, 2013
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 1648
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: Rimmed
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I was just ribbing swampshooter. Where is that guy anyway?



____________________
National sovereignty is not a political matter. Our laws are not subject to dismissal because your virtue signaling, simple-minded, self-loathing, America hating view on immigration makes you feel like you are better than someone else. You aren't.


 Posted: Wed Mar 1st, 2017 05:07 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
17th Post
runfiverun
Senior Member
 

Joined: Sat Feb 9th, 2008
Location: Soda Springs, Idaho USA
Posts: 3888
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

my 1-8 really likes the 60-65-68 gr bullets I haven't tried anything heavier.
but they do really well on top of H-322.
I don't know why.
the 50-57's will do well on top of AA's 2230 or H-322 or AA-2495 [I just have to wiggle the load density with them]

I have looked real hard at trying the CFE-223 especially since I have about 15 lbs of it.
but I'm okay with velocity's in the 2850 range with the heavier bullets since I'm using it for varmint shooting to 300 yds.



 Posted: Wed Mar 1st, 2017 11:57 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
18th Post
STIHL
Senior Member
 

Joined: Sun Jan 24th, 2016
Location: East Central, Mississippi, USA
Posts: 1222
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: Anything that goes boom.
Status: 
Online

  back to top

Mines a1-8 wylde chamber as well.



 Posted: Wed Mar 1st, 2017 01:19 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
19th Post
SavageShooter



Joined: Mon Feb 15th, 2010
Location: Suburb Of KC, Missouri USA
Posts: 5898
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: Improved Chamberings
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Nice looking rifle Dadajack and great shooting. I know you can shoot because I've seen it first hand.

I'll have to bring to Texas my 1:7 twist 223 Rem. It shoots 77gr SMK's amazingly well. I've got some 80gr & 90gr that I wanted to test with it, just not enough time.



____________________
“We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.”
― Ronald Reagan


 Posted: Wed Mar 1st, 2017 11:58 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
20th Post
dadajack
Senior Member


Joined: Sun Sep 29th, 2013
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 1648
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: Rimmed
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I toyed with the idea of a 1-7" tube, but I just wasn't that excited about the lack of velocity you suffer without hammering everything, including your gun, to get it up over 2800 fps. I'll bring all my latest builds to Breck this year, and some of my favorite old ones as well... :)



____________________
National sovereignty is not a political matter. Our laws are not subject to dismissal because your virtue signaling, simple-minded, self-loathing, America hating view on immigration makes you feel like you are better than someone else. You aren't.


 Current time is 01:17 PMPage:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
The Handloaders Bench > Metallic cartridge reloading > Reloading for rifles > Just finished my latest build on a Savage action
Top




UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.2142 seconds (16% database + 84% PHP). 26 queries executed.