The Handloaders Bench Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register

Welcome to HandloadersBench.com. Our mission here is to provide a place for those interested in the hobby of Reloading Ammunition. We offer a series of forums where they can ask questions, share answers, and highlight successes & failures so that others can learn. If you join our site please be aware that front porch rules apply. If you wouldn't say it on your front porch with grandma, your pastor and your 12 year old niece present it doesn't belong here. The Golden Rule applies. If you can live within those guidelines, Welcome Aboard! Spammers, trolls, and flamers will not last long here, your time would be better spent looking for a board where those traits are acceptable. HB Administration

neck turning help needed
 Moderated by: Slingshot, Rockydog, klallen, DesertMarine, -6
 New Topic   Reply   Printer Friendly 
 Rate Topic 
AuthorPost
 Posted: Mon Mar 13th, 2017 08:48 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
1st Post
Harve
Junior Member
 

Joined: Thu Mar 9th, 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 17
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 220 swift ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I've done alotta reloading but never had to turn necks... I'm working on a 22-250 with a .244 neck using hornady neck turning equipment. I'm using Redding bushing dies. I ordered a .242 and .243 bushing, am i on the right track with these? Is it a one & done deal or will they occasionally have to be turned again? How am I gonna screw this up and not know it till its too late? Any other tips or secrets would be appreciated



 Posted: Mon Mar 13th, 2017 10:32 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
2nd Post
jackson1
Master Handloader
 

Joined: Sat May 8th, 2010
Location:  
Posts: 1179
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 7-06 Improved
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Harve, been turning necks 0ver 35 years. A .244 neck, sounds like tight neck, mainly found on benchrest rifles. Assuming you do not have a tubing micrometer, you can mic the out side of a neck with a bullet seated in it. For safety you need a minimum of 0.001 clearance, or a one side neck clearance of 0.0005. I hope the 0.242 bushing will work. If not try annealing you necks or drop another 0.001 in bushing diameter. In my experience, most brass runs around 0.013 to 0.014 per side. When I do my brass I make a rough cut of 0.001 per side or 0.002 total or multiple cuts of that depth and a finish cut of 0.005 or 0.001 total off the outside. I use a an electric drill and a case holder to spin my case. Also you will need an proper sized neck mandrel to open the neck enough for the neck turning mandrel to fit in side of the case mouth. Another lesson I learned the hard way is not to use sizing wax as a lubricant on the mandrel, as it is difficult to remove (I use WD40 and tumble and neck size). Determine you neck thickness and if done correctly you bullet seated necks will be 0.243 diameter of smaller. At that diameter, I would recommend a 0.241 or ever 0.240, depending on how much bullet grip you rifle likes. This last step is difficult to describe, but here goes. Turn you necks a few thousands into the neck/shoulder junction to avoid donuts, or seat you bullets short of the neck/ shoulder junction A tight neck rifle usually has the chamber diameter stamped on the barrel and who ever you purchased the rifle from should have alerted you to what you were buying. Most tight neck rifle builders would have alerted you to these conditions. Good luck. Neck turning is not difficult, just time consuming.

Be sure to check your clearance with a finished turned round to insure they chamber. A tubing mic will allow you to monitor your progress, with out that step of bullet seating.



 Posted: Tue Mar 14th, 2017 02:30 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
3rd Post
RobertMT
Master Handloader


Joined: Sat Jan 17th, 2009
Location: Columbia Falls, MT
Posts: 5634
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 270wsm ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Pretty nice tools for the money, sign up for e-mails and save extra 10% on first order.

http://www.shars.com/products/measuring/micrometers/0-1-solid-metal-frame-outside-micrometer
http://www.shars.com/products/measuring/micrometers/0-1-tube-micrometer-1



____________________
Fake news sites = sources of information, not censored by those currently in power.

MSM = sources of misinformation, approved by those currently in power.

It's only a conspiracy theory, if it's not true.

Citizens are armed, subjects aren't.


 Posted: Tue Mar 14th, 2017 05:14 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
4th Post
HighBC
Full Member
 

Joined: Tue Jun 21st, 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 695
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 7mm RM
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Jackson really covered it very well. I turn for a number of cartridges, including 22-250.

To answer the one & done question, it depends on whether you need to address the dreaded doughnut. If you don't seat into the neck shoulder junction region one turn should do just fine.

As far as tools, I'm a K&M guy, I love their turning tools, they have a closer tolerance adjustment range than some of the other turning tools.

As for measuring, I'm happy with Mitutoyo ball mic. Not super expensive, but the quality is certainly good enough for what we do.

HBC



 Posted: Tue Mar 14th, 2017 12:09 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
5th Post
Harve
Junior Member
 

Joined: Thu Mar 9th, 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 17
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 220 swift ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

thanks guys, i've been studying on it but there's always something i read 3 or 4 times and it just does sink in. i'm gonna try to get started this weekend, i'm sure i'll have more questions then... thanks again!



 Posted: Tue Mar 14th, 2017 01:27 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
6th Post
Ruffian
Senior Member


Joined: Wed Feb 19th, 2014
Location: Rockland County NY
Posts: 3946
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 6mm&25-06AI 40&460S&W 7mm,280 Rem,300&30-378 Wby,6.5x47& 338 Lapua Mag,6mmPPC & wildcats
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Avoid taking too much off with a single pass.. Depending on the brass being used some are heavier than others. I like to do ( if necessary in a few steps ) in maybe two steps or 3 on the brass. This is a time consuming job and just take your time and do it right. As Jackson put it in his post say right on ! bushing size will depending on your preference of tension and bullets used. Remember all are not created equal so one bullet may be a different size with another Mfg. Nosler may be different from Sierra as an example. Brass must be separated and well marked. Play some tunes and work away:thumbs::thumbs: Make good notes and keep with your loading dies / book of reloads. I been using the Sinclair toys for a long time and have many of there products and have any questions just call and ask for tech support great guys there.

Last edited on Tue Mar 14th, 2017 01:33 PM by Ruffian



____________________
Tight Lines / Shoot Often
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
Friends of the FORTY FIVE

RUFFIAN




 Posted: Tue Mar 14th, 2017 02:09 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
7th Post
Offfhand
Forum Benefactor
 

Joined: Fri Dec 26th, 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 865
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Mr. Harve, a .244” chamber neck is pretty tight for a .22/250, and as you already know is much too tight for factory loaded ammo, which typically has a neck dia. Of .252” Typically, .22/250 brass will have neck wall thickness of .014,” meaning you have to turn necks to at least .009” just for a snug fit in chamber, which is still too tight for practical loading. I would recommend turning to a max of .008” neck wall thickness, which means a .006” cut. Which is a pretty deep cut and you will be wise to make two thinner cuts. For instance, set your turning tool for a .004” first cut and re-adjust turning tool for a .002” finishing cut. (Assuming you are using a single tool.) Usually, when I remove substantial amounts of brass I may even make three cuts, and save setup time by having turning tools pre-adjusted and numbered accordingly, as shown in attached photo. As advised in earlier posts, the K&M turning tools are a good value and I suggest you spend a bit more for a carbide turning mandrel, which they offer. Also check out their case holder speed adapters.

Attachment: Turners.JPG (Downloaded 61 times)



 Posted: Tue Mar 14th, 2017 02:17 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
8th Post
Harve
Junior Member
 

Joined: Thu Mar 9th, 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 17
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 220 swift ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

i was given a box of loaded ammo for the rifle when i bought it. best i can recall they measured around .240, will they be any help in figuring out which bushing to use if i load different bullets? sorry if these are dumb, redundant questions, i've loaded thousands of rounds but i'm not sure of myself turning necks



 Posted: Tue Mar 14th, 2017 02:28 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
9th Post
Harve
Junior Member
 

Joined: Thu Mar 9th, 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 17
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 220 swift ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

i guess i should tell you guys what we're working with... i got a deal on a custom rifle, panda action, krieger barrel, jewel trigger all in a mcmillan benchrest stock. i'm not a competitive shooter but i got it cheap enough and thought it would be fun to play with



 Posted: Tue Mar 14th, 2017 02:56 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
10th Post
Offfhand
Forum Benefactor
 

Joined: Fri Dec 26th, 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 865
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Mr. Harve, if the loads measured .240" it tells you that the neck walls had been turned to .008"which is what I had recommend in my earlier post. So you're on target. Use a .238" bushing and you're good to go.



 Posted: Tue Mar 14th, 2017 04:45 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
11th Post
Harve
Junior Member
 

Joined: Thu Mar 9th, 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 17
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 220 swift ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

thanks for the help! i think i'm just trying to make this harder than it really is



 Posted: Tue Mar 14th, 2017 05:40 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
12th Post
jackson1
Master Handloader
 

Joined: Sat May 8th, 2010
Location:  
Posts: 1179
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 7-06 Improved
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Harve, the components for your rifle are all top quality stuff. You are not making it harder than it is. Neck turning is very precise work and time consuming. You should have no problem getting the rifle to shoot in the low 0.3" to high 0.2" for five shoots at 100 yards, with a good rest and bags. Assuming you have a rest and a wide form arm benchrest stock, you will need a specific bag to fit your fore arm. Sorry I keep telling you spend more money

. Maybe the rifle was not such a great deal? I don't agree. You will quickly become addicted to benchrest shooting and much of what you will learn can be applied to all your rifles.

The only rifle I ever had to neck turn more once was a 220 Swift. The brass really like to flow on a long tapered case.

I use a feeler gauge for my to set up first pass cutting depth on my turning tool. Using a term from my tool and die making background, you can make what I call a "touch". This an operation where you softly or gently touch the cutting surface with the cutting tool, and then locking the tool in place. Then make a cut and measure. You will be much happier making multiple passes or cuts, especially if you are doing this by hand or arm strong method. Neck turning is the most labor intensive procedure I have ever done for handloading and I have done every thing I am aware of.

I use an old school Hart rest with a SinClair top. If you go to Bullets.com the have some great deals on Bald Eagle rests, some with joy sticks.

I have only scratched the surface of what you need to know about shooting a bench gun. The are a number of books on the subject. Once you get up and running, learn to love the wind.



 Posted: Wed Mar 15th, 2017 07:23 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
13th Post
HighBC
Full Member
 

Joined: Tue Jun 21st, 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 695
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 7mm RM
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Offfhand wrote:
Mr. Harve, a .244” chamber neck is pretty tight for a .22/250, and as you already know is much too tight for factory loaded ammo, which typically has a neck dia. Of .252” Typically, .22/250 brass will have neck wall thickness of .014,” meaning you have to turn necks to at least .009” just for a snug fit in chamber, which is still too tight for practical loading. I would recommend turning to a max of .008” neck wall thickness, which means a .006” cut. Which is a pretty deep cut and you will be wise to make two thinner cuts. For instance, set your turning tool for a .004” first cut and re-adjust turning tool for a .002” finishing cut. (Assuming you are using a single tool.) Usually, when I remove substantial amounts of brass I may even make three cuts, and save setup time by having turning tools pre-adjusted and numbered accordingly, as shown in attached photo. As advised in earlier posts, the K&M turning tools are a good value and I suggest you spend a bit more for a carbide turning mandrel, which they offer. Also check out their case holder speed adapters.


I like to step mine down also, and when working with something that's gonna need a deep cut like this I'd definitely go with at least 2 passes, but 3 would be much better.

And yes, carbide tooling is the only way to go. I use a carbide mandrel, cutter, and expansion tool. I feel that since I'm going to the extra effort to perform another step toward improved consistency I can't see the point in using substandard tooling.

I came across some new Winchester brass recently, some of it had a heavy side of .019" and some change, with a thin side of .015" and some change. And the average wasn't much better either, some real inconsistent and thick brass. Once I turned it I ended up with about .0012" of chamber relief, and accuracy was very pleasing after the initial fire forming. Following the initial fire forming session, I neck size down to just below where the heel of the bullet would seat. I think this further enhances bullet to bore alignment, I've had very pleasing results using this process for a good number of years and with numerous different cartridges and rifles.

Ah, the things we do to enhance our shooting experiences. I'm just surprised my wife has put up with me after 35 years of obsessing with this hobby.

HBC



 Posted: Wed Mar 15th, 2017 06:57 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
14th Post
Harve
Junior Member
 

Joined: Thu Mar 9th, 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 17
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 220 swift ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

it's all starting to make sense to me but i'm sure i'll have more questions when i get started. thanks for all the help, without it i think there was gonna be a lot of head scratching and cussing. i will let you know how it works out...



 Posted: Thu Mar 16th, 2017 06:26 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
15th Post
Offfhand
Forum Benefactor
 

Joined: Fri Dec 26th, 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 865
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Mr. Harve, Not to upset your apple cart, but after reviewing our discussions about turning necks for your rifle, let’s give some thought to what you have and what you may hope to accomplish: to begin with, you have a fine rifle. Rifles of the type you have tend to have been shot a lot, meaning that the barrel may very well be past its prime and the throat pretty well shot out. Thus, after going to the expense and trouble of preparing cases to fire in it, the accuracy may very well not be what you had hoped for and expected. With this in mind, I offer the following suggestions: First, have the throat checked with a borescope, which most gunsmiths can do. If erosion and other signs of wear are apparent, what you might consider is having the barrel set back a couple of inches and rechambered to standard dimensions in which you can fire standard dimension cartridges. Thus saving you some trouble and at the same time yielding you a more suitable rifle. Think it over.



 Posted: Thu Mar 16th, 2017 06:44 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
16th Post
Harve
Junior Member
 

Joined: Thu Mar 9th, 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 17
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 220 swift ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

i was told it was shot 100rds, give or take. i believe the guy, said after buying it he decided it wasn't his thing. i have thought about rechambering but decided i'd give neck turning a go. if this barrel ever gets shot out, which i doubt will happen, it will go to standard caliber



 Current time is 12:05 AM
Top




UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.1840 seconds (18% database + 82% PHP). 27 queries executed.