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Ladder Testing for AR10
 Moderated by: Slingshot, Rockydog, klallen, DesertMarine, -6
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 Posted: Sat Mar 18th, 2017 05:32 PM
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OKLHUNTER
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Hey all, It's been awhile since I have been able to spend any time, here on the bench. Yesterday I finally got a break from work and was able to get out for a little range therapy.
I have been working on some ladder testing for the AR10 that I have built. I mounted a Nikon M308 scope on it and with this scope, the theory is, using a 168 grain bullet traveling at 2680 FPS, I should be able to use the dots, dashes and circles accurately out to 800 yards. Hitting that magical number of 2680, or at least close, yet maintaining accuracy has been a challenge in itself.
So far, the Sierra 168 Grain Match King seems to work the best in the rifle. When I built the rifle, I installed a Ballistic Advantage Heavy Profile barrel with a 1:10.
So far, the only powder that has gotten me close to the 2680 velocity has been BL-C2 but the accuracy really sucked (ranging any where from 2.22" to 3.35" @ 100yds) Best accuracy was 43.0 Grains of RL15 @ .745", but only getting 2540 FPS average.
I seem to be getting velocities slower than what the manuals state. I am assuming that I am loosing some of my velocity loss through the gas system of the rifle. My manuals are showing max loads to achieve 2700 FPS.
Any ideas on how to regain the lost velocity? The Sierra 168 Grain MK seems to work the best but any ideas would be helpful.



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 Posted: Sat Mar 18th, 2017 06:15 PM
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12semi
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How about IMR4350?  Or Varget?  IMR4064?  Alliant is suggesting 2000-MR and AR-Comp

I am seeing your problem and getting to the 2700 level using the 168 grain anything is going to be tough.  And you have no room in which to load that bullet out unless you make it a single shot?  With my  bolt rifles generally speaking the smaller the jump the more consistent my accuracy.  So maybe if we could tighten up some groups we could get closer to the FPS objective?                

This is an 18 or 20 inch barrel so you are losing FPS.  When you slip over to a faster powder accuracy suffers.  Nosler's book is showing a 24" Lilja barrel and I am not sure you can reach those velocities with an 18 or even a 20" barrel.   

Just noticed on Nosler if you drop to a 155 grain with AR-Comp your velocity may be enough to beat the shorter barrel.  Would the 13 grain difference whack the scope settings?   
Best of Luck with your 10.
    



 Posted: Sat Mar 18th, 2017 09:55 PM
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trouble
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I get ~2,592 fps with 40.8 gr of Varget and 168 grain hornady or sierra projectiles.  This is using Lake City brass btw and out of an Armalite AR10t with a 24" barrel.



 Posted: Sun Mar 19th, 2017 02:16 AM
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RobertMT
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I would just find load that shoots best in your rifle and adjust your holdovers from there.

Use Nikon's spot on program, as one way to get there.
http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/Nikon-Products/Hunting-SpotOn/index.page

If that doesn't get you there, there's other options, I shoot lots of Christmas tree reticles and they can be very fast, but it's easiest to match reticle's output to your load, than visa versa.



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 Posted: Sun Mar 19th, 2017 02:19 AM
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OKLHUNTER
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My last test was using Varget:
41.5 Gr - 2444
42.0 Gr - 2475
42.5 Gr - 2515
43.0 Gr - 2534
4305 Gr - 2569



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 Posted: Sun Mar 19th, 2017 02:46 AM
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RobertMT
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OKLHUNTER wrote:
My last test was using Varget:
41.5 Gr - 2444
42.0 Gr - 2475
42.5 Gr - 2515
43.0 Gr - 2534
4305 Gr - 2569


ETA;
Link didn't keep info and I couldn't save pic with text on it, hope you can make sense out of pic. I used 6 power and 1.75" above bore for scope height, that's what my ARs average, be sure to measure yours to be accurate. Confirming by shooting, is best but should get you on paper at 2,500fps. Play with spot on a bit, seems like OK program.

cross hair 100 then each line down in pic
179
274
361
461
549
640
730
779
825

Attachment: BDC_800_Reticle.bmp (Downloaded 30 times)

Last edited on Sun Mar 19th, 2017 03:07 AM by RobertMT



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 Posted: Sun Mar 19th, 2017 03:21 AM
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swampratt
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I assume you are using your Lapua cases.
If these are multiple times fired you need to anneal them.
Fact all cases need annealed you know that.

Another thing with my .308 with 20.5" barrel I can't reach an upper accuracy node with Lapua cases. I can try but the groups begin to scatter.

If I need more than 2550 FPS in 165 or 168 gr I must use winchester cases.
Then I can bump the varget to 45 gr and still have room and groups look good and velocity is more than you asked for.


Here is something else.
You can shoot crap at 100 say 1" stuff.. go ahead and take that load to 200 and 300 and see what it does.
Might still be 1" at 200.

BLC-2 I found 45gr with 150gr bullets is a great accuracy node in many 308 rifles.
I could not make it work well for 168 though.

Varget is temperature picky.. what works at 30 degrees could fall apart at 60.
IMR 4064 does not do that to me.. neither does 8208 XBR.

Are you only getting to shoot at 100?

Last edited on Sun Mar 19th, 2017 03:22 AM by swampratt



 Posted: Sun Mar 19th, 2017 04:53 AM
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OKLHUNTER
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swampratt wrote:
I assume you are using your Lapua cases.
If these are multiple times fired you need to anneal them.
Fact all cases need annealed you know that.

Another thing with my .308 with 20.5" barrel I can't reach an upper accuracy node with Lapua cases. I can try but the groups begin to scatter.

If I need more than 2550 FPS in 165 or 168 gr I must use winchester cases.
Then I can bump the varget to 45 gr and still have room and groups look good and velocity is more than you asked for.


Here is something else.
You can shoot crap at 100 say 1" stuff.. go ahead and take that load to 200 and 300 and see what it does.
Might still be 1" at 200.

BLC-2 I found 45gr with 150gr bullets is a great accuracy node in many 308 rifles.
I could not make it work well for 168 though.

Varget is temperature picky.. what works at 30 degrees could fall apart at 60.
IMR 4064 does not do that to me.. neither does 8208 XBR.

Are you only getting to shoot at 100?



No, not using the Lapua cases. The rifle beats them up pretty bad. I am using PMC cases. All of the PMC cases were prepped and annealed prior to loading. Matter of fact, I just bought a new annealing set up, which does a much better job than the other one I have.
Did this ladder test at Banner yesterday. I still need to get with you for a place where I can stretch the rifle out. Work has been hell the last few months.



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 Posted: Sun Mar 19th, 2017 02:21 PM
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swampratt
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I can only shoot there on tuesday through friday during the daytime.
Moma gets me the rest of the time.
But we can shoot 100-300 for some groups. after you dial in something there is some longer range stuff to 500.

Once that gets finished I can show you my public hunting area spot where you can shoot 2000 yards if you care to take a long shot at a piggie ..all the piggies i see are under 100 yards though.



 Posted: Sun Mar 19th, 2017 04:15 PM
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OKLHUNTER
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Sounds like a plan. My days off are now Friday and Saturday, If I can get both off. For the last few months I have needed to work one or both of my days off.
I'm going to load some more test loads for when I can Get with you.



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-Charlton Heston


 Posted: Sun Mar 19th, 2017 08:13 PM
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swampratt
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I have some remington 7mm-08 cases a 20 count in the same box.
You could neck those up to .308 and have some good remington cases to try out.
If we go shooting I will bring my turret press and do some scooped hand loads that are silly accurate.



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