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I built a tumbler

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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 12:33 AM

swampratt
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Finally built one and made my media from copper
we will see how she works..I just put in a batch of 45acp.

Tub rpm is about 120

Attachment: jp tumbler 008.jpg (Downloaded 685 times)

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 12:44 AM

fryboy
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"media from copper" ... i've heard of rice being used with some success but copper ? my fav i've seen was a treadmill ... but i cant help but wonder if that feller's wife thinks he walked that whole distance lolz

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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 01:20 AM

swampratt
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H&H gun range here is a big store that sells all kinds of stuff for hunting..they have the thumblers tumbler.
I seen copper cleaning media in a bag there for sale and figured why not try it.

Attachment: jp tumbler 006.jpg (Downloaded 655 times)

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 01:22 AM

swampratt
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and a pic with it all cut up..this was 1/0
and cut into different sizes none longer that about 7/8"
some may be 1/4"

Attachment: jp tumbler 007.jpg (Downloaded 655 times)

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 01:43 AM

fryboy
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ahhhh ... curious how it works , i'd never seen copper media before , i'm familiar with the stainless steel pins of course , personally i like plain ol citric acid and a squirt of dawn to clean ( and boy does it with little to no labor ) and then for a shine it goes into ye olde buzz bucket , walnut lizard bedding works for a decent price as does corncob , either of which can be bought cheap from places like grainger or various media blasting supply places ( the corn cob bedding i seen at my local wally world was too coarse and would plug up the primer pockets - too large to plug up the flash holes tho lolz )

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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 01:44 AM

12semi
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Swamp-

Okay, looks good to me, one question: The coppper-are the ends square or pinched? How did you get them cut square? What say you throw a few bottleneck cases in and let us know results?

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 02:09 AM

swampratt
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I cut the ends with wiss sheet metal snips.
Ran a little while with some mixed range brass with primers in them(wanted to dull the copper a bit) with lemishine and then i removed the pins and rinsed and got my other range brass, my 45acp and de primed some of those and put the pins and 1/8teaspoon lemishine and hot water with a drop of palmolive into the bucket.( the bucket is a big empty bottle of V8) not completely round, i think that should keep them agitated better...

Well i wanted a drop but got like 5 of palmolive.
Oh well the tub is pretty sudsy...The water looks much darker than i normally see..so i think it is working better than cooking and stiring brass in a pan on the stove.

I will remove and inspect in 10 minutes or so..that should be 2 hours of tumbling.

I do not think i will save the liquid on this..

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 02:30 AM

swampratt
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My cleanest brass yet.. SUCCESS!!!
I will deprime some rifle range pickup and see what it does for them..tomorrow though..

Attachment: br 003.jpg (Downloaded 652 times)

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 02:41 AM

fryboy
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yes sir that's clean !!! the citric acid also seemed to of worked on the copper pins ( perhaps in part that's why it appears so dirty ? and why they use stainless ?? ) i like clean , polished is optional but i've always felt that primer residue comes out easier from polished pockets than merely cleaned ones (erm load'em up and get'em dirty again :P )

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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 03:38 AM

12semi
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Yep, I like it. Clean primer pockets, cases look clean inside and out. Swampratt you done good and I am impressed. Very creative.

For all the tumbler threads, this kind of tumbling sure seems to be as the best way to go. No bridging, no dust, no residue to collect on your sizing die, no primer pocket cleaning if you do that.

I have a sonic cleaner but the best thing that device does that I have found is cleaning bolts and trigger assemblies.

Maybe not as shiny as the stainless steel but with the brass looking like that a regular tumbler will shine them up pretty quick and I must admit I like my brass shiny.

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 04:59 AM

Josh45
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How much are you in for with the whole set up?
I wouldn't mind doing this as I am really starting to hate corn cob and the other media. DUST EVERYWHERE!

So let us know how much everything cost and give us the instructions!!

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 05:43 AM

Reinz
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Slick set up there Swamprat.

Thanks for sharing. :beer:

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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 12:36 PM

swampratt
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Well I am in it for the price of 1/2 roll of duct tape.
so like 2 bucks.
I had all the stuff laying around.
I was using zinc coated BB's and walnut media in my vibratory
it dusted some grey matter really bad..so i needed to either buy some more walnut or corn cob which i never tried.
OR""" build this.

Instructions:
Find an old treadmill during big trash remove rollers and motor,, misplace the motor in your yard so you can use 1/2 roll of tape and your drill.
I mounted the rollers into a filing cabinet.
1 roller was 4" longer than the other so i cut 4" from the tube and welded back together

I just really only needed some sort of round something that would support the container of brass and spin on bearings.

And then just spin one side with a motor...The steel shafts sticking out do not spin...I took apart an old Craig am/fm record player /8track player to use the motors..they spun the V8 tub fine with just water in it..but add heavy brass and pins...forget it...i needed more umph...

Duct tape on roller to create rubbery surface to spin the V8 container which also got the duct tape..

This is cool..the V8 container has 2 areas one at each end that will accept an O ring.. a big O ring..so if you want to go crazy......I built up the tape on 1 roller to create a stop that the V8 container hits against while it is spinning...it wants to walk you know.
I beat the edge of the file cabinet down with a hammer to make a spot to mount my drill with zip ties..
Pic..

Attachment: closeups 001.jpg (Downloaded 636 times)

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 12:37 PM

swampratt
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I used a rubber sanding drum in the drill and then stacked on the tape to make it fatter..Needed to do this to get the drill far enough away from the spinning container.

Attachment: closeups 005.jpg (Downloaded 635 times)

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 12:38 PM

swampratt
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another pic

Attachment: closeups 003.jpg (Downloaded 635 times)

Last edited on Sun Nov 11th, 2012 12:38 PM by swampratt

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 12:39 PM

swampratt
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and the not so round V8 container.

Attachment: closeups 004.jpg (Downloaded 633 times)

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 12:43 PM

swampratt
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I still need to buy either walnut..or corn cob .
Now help me out I will use it to put some shinola to the brass.. walnut does not seem to put shinola to it unless i add stuff..which one is less dusty?
Thanks

I made a bag from window screen and duct tape to put my already vibrated dusty brass into..You can blow compressed air at the bag ( i have an air compressor) and eliminate the dust.
I then take the bag and dump it out on some carpet and mix the brass around...the carpet will get all the rest off.
Then vacuum every now and then..
But insides were not to my liking. so a powered spinning cleaning brush was sent into each case..time consuming.....That is 1 reason why i built this.
So many steps...and then the primer pockets. :sad:

:sad:

Last edited on Sun Nov 11th, 2012 12:52 PM by swampratt

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 03:41 PM

ElkSlayer
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thats a cool set up.. would had never thought of it ... thanks

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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 04:18 PM

swampratt
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Figured you just need to spin a container.
Now the 30-06 brass that has sat for many years after being shot..That makes the carbon in the pockets extra hard.
dirty pic first

Attachment: dty06 001.jpg (Downloaded 623 times)

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 04:20 PM

swampratt
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2 hours later, although i feel 3 may have got the winchester pockets cleaner..those had some stuff in them that even when i took a pin and tried to scrape it out it would not budge..

The insides and necks cleaned up really nice as did the primer pockets...Will run a batch with hot water and palmolive only..no lemishine.

Attachment: dty06 003.jpg (Downloaded 623 times)

Last edited on Sun Nov 11th, 2012 04:22 PM by swampratt

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 05:05 PM

diamondbgunsmiths
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Pretty cool set-up there SR. Varying ideas on subjects is what makes this place so awesome. Thanks for the idea on the copper cleaning media too, different approach. Gonna have to try it!

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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 05:29 PM

swampratt
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That piece of 1/0 was 3.5 feet long and gave me plenty of pins after i cut it up..and kungfoo grip

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 05:35 PM

diamondbgunsmiths
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No doubt! Even with a bolt-cutter, or cable cutter, chopping that stuff is a real "female dog"!!! :lol:

:lol:

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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 05:58 PM

12semi
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The 06 cases are simply remarkable. I gotta tell ya Swamp in the dictionary when you look up the word creative or inventive, ther's gonna be a picture of you. Great work. Of course, clear around the USA there will now be a bidding war for old treadmills and duct tape shortages may make the 6:00 PM news.

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 05:59 PM

ElkSlayer
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wow that works great. good job :cool:

:cool:

I like how clean they look after only 2hours. did some 338 in awalnut media took forever

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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 06:21 PM

swampratt
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I hear you on the walnut, I was letting my walnut go all night. still had residue in the primer pockets.
BB"s helped that some in the large pistol primer pockets.
But those broke down my media fast and left lot's of grey dust from possibly the zinc coated bb's...
Small primer pockets and rifle pockets did not clean as well with BB's mixed in.

I like a nice smooth clean neck so i get even pressure when bullet seating..That is my goal.
Got about 1 hour till i check on the other batch with no lemishine.

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 11:44 PM

swampratt
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OK so last round i tried no citric acid and left them in for 2 hours and 15 minutes..
Not cleaned nearly as well.. it DID remove a bunch of crud from pockets though.

Attachment: last round 003.jpg (Downloaded 222 times)

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 11:45 PM

swampratt
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Then i took the same batch of brass and went another round with citric acid(lemishine) for 2 hours.
Much better...very shiny..I am happy now.
primer pockets are spotless

Attachment: last round 004.jpg (Downloaded 223 times)

Last edited on Sun Nov 11th, 2012 11:48 PM by swampratt

Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 11:51 PM

swampratt
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one more pic of that round.

Be nice to do a copper vs stainless media test.

Attachment: last round 005.jpg (Downloaded 224 times)

Last edited on Sun Nov 11th, 2012 11:52 PM by swampratt

Posted: Mon Nov 12th, 2012 03:12 PM

trhodes
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Pretty ingenious!

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Posted: Mon Nov 12th, 2012 05:24 PM

swampratt
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Been thinking of an even cheaper way to do it.
Remember rolling a tire as a kid while you walk to the store or to a buddies house..
How about a small wide lawn mower tire with a V8 container inside of it..roll that with a stick on your 40 minute walk.

May even attach a handle so it don't get away.

But the drawback to all this is the brass you were happy with that is already cleaned from the vibratory will need cleaned again :sad:

:sad:

I must be related to my daughter because i do like shiny things

Posted: Wed Nov 14th, 2012 12:29 PM

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I usually use a Cabela's/Berry's tumbler with corn cob media, but there's times when, especially with Unique powder, the inside of the cases are really grungy. I've used the citric acid bath with success, but I just had an idea while perusing my old 'stuff'. I was big into photography and processing many years ago (before the digital age), and I have a Unicolor processing drum that may fill the bill.

The base rotates the drum in two directions, alternating every two or three revolutions, and the drum is large enough to hold an 11 x 14 sheet of paper. The photo above depicts the 8 x 10-size drum. I'll get some SS media and give it a go.

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Posted: Wed Nov 14th, 2012 02:49 PM

D Crockett
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Zeeba you are on the right track here is one I made out of a papper folder from a print shop that I use ss meida in with some dawn dish soap and lemon shine make the brass come out looking like it is new

Posted: Wed Nov 14th, 2012 04:10 PM

Katch1
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Just put brass and media in a tire and put tire on rollers seen that done before cant remember how it was turned for sure nor kept upright but that was a longgg time ago and it does work but tire moved slowly

Posted: Wed Nov 14th, 2012 04:29 PM

swampratt
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I have a 120v concrete mixer.. i could put brass in that or install a 5 gallon bucket in it or a tire to it and add media and go....Man talk about cleaning a bunch of range brass quick...toss in a couple pounds of nails and or steel shot.

sounds like a mess fixin to happen.. :wink:

:wink:

Posted: Wed Nov 14th, 2012 10:05 PM

Katch1
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The concrete mixer is a good idea was looking at buying lots if military brass for resale those caught my attention as i am reloading in increasingly larger lots due to more shooter coming on line in the family may look into something along these lines or will need another tumbler

Posted: Wed Nov 14th, 2012 10:25 PM

swampratt
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i have done 40 rounds at a time of 30-06 in the homemade V8 container and also done 125 rounds of 45acp.
so not a bunch by no means

Posted: Wed Nov 14th, 2012 10:28 PM

wheezengeezer
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swampratt wrote: Been thinking of an even cheaper way to do it.
Remember rolling a tire as a kid while you walk to the store or to a buddies house.Did you say tire? Been piddlin with such a thing with a motor.May be done by Christmas.

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Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2012 12:02 AM

swampratt
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you will need to share it with us..
I was thinking of an apparatus you could attach to a bicycle wheel, the wheel will spin the drum while you ride it.
even an excersize bike would or could work...

Would force you to work out if you wanted some clean brass :troll:

:troll:

Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2012 09:22 PM

Nate Westman
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Nicely done! :applaud:

:applaud:

On the idea of a manual model, I was going to suggest some kind of system that rides behind a lawn-mower, (get some extra work out of all that fuel!), but then I remembered that it would leave me without clean brass for half the year while we get pummeled with snow...

;D

Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2012 02:19 PM

swampratt
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some 223 brass i cleaned..
I found i can pack more in it and it cleans just as well.
I filled it 1/3 full with this 223,,,123 rounds 2 hours of spin time.

Attachment: 223 before after 001.jpg (Downloaded 220 times)

Last edited on Fri Nov 16th, 2012 02:24 PM by swampratt

Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2012 02:20 PM

swampratt
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That was the before..this is the after
I did not deprime but the necks are clean and they are shiny inside the case.
This thing has ran everyday since i built it for at least 6 hours..sure like it.
the pins are smoother on the ends from where i snipped them..But they clean just the same.

Attachment: 223 before after 002.jpg (Downloaded 211 times)

Last edited on Fri Nov 16th, 2012 02:23 PM by swampratt

Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2012 06:36 PM

diamondbgunsmiths
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Good stuff brother man! I scored 135 rounds of .45ACP the other night on a night run to the range. I should buzz down your way, and see what kind of magic you can do on them!

lol!

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Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2012 07:05 PM

swampratt
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I got a little over 200 rounds of 45acp that i already cleaned from the range yesterday some 7mm rem mag and 308 and 30-06 and some 270 and 9mm a few 40's

good haul yesterday for sure..I took my 45acp and i go the pistol range ,hang my target and get the gun out.

CRAP!!! the clip is at the house..I had the gun and clip out and put the gun in the case and got distracted..I bet i am not the only one....at least i hope so.

Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2012 07:15 PM

diamondbgunsmiths
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Cheaper to shoot that way, you use less ammo.!!! :lol:

:lol:

BTW, you mean the magazine, not the clip. Magazines go into guns, clips load ammo. into magazines. :wink:

:wink:

I made a run last night, think we found a dozen cases total, not good. Gonna run next week, bet things will be better. I built a new buzz bucket the other day, not sure if it's worthy of being on here or not. Works, but will wake the dead!

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Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2012 07:30 PM

swampratt
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Magazines go on the back of the terrlett :wink:

:wink:

But good to know..don't want to sound like a goob.
Kind of like asking for Ball see 2 powder..

My tumbler ain't quiet either but all is forgiven when you remove the bounty.

Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2012 09:27 PM

diamondbgunsmiths
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swampratt wrote: Magazines go on the back of the terrlett :wink:

:wink:

But good to know..don't want to sound like a goob.
Kind of like asking for Ball see 2 powder..

My tumbler ain't quiet either but all is forgiven when you remove the bounty.

I never put my magazines on the back of the terrlett; gets the powder wet and they don't shoot worth a sh@t!!!! lol! Far as the Ball see 2 powder, is that anything like BL-C (2), my favorite rifle powder??? :confused:

:confused:

A customer asked me the other day if I had any 7.62 ammo. around. Sure do, 7.62X25, 7.62X39, 7.62X54, 7.62X38!!! Yup, its fun. Just turned a bunch of empty cases into a bunch of .38 Special +P. Finished a customer's shotgun, and wanted to carry on the momentum.

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Posted: Wed Nov 21st, 2012 06:53 PM

swampratt
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So i needed to modify it..why because i found the DC motor that came with the free treadmill.
It is 95v DC but spins fine at 12 or 24volt..i have it hooked at 24 volts..spins a little faster than the drill had it spinnin' but i had the drill at 1/2 throttle..
A little angle iron and a few bolts and nuts i had laying around..
here it is now..much much quieter than the drill.

Attachment: dcmotor 001.jpg (Downloaded 187 times)

Posted: Wed Nov 21st, 2012 06:54 PM

swampratt
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Just a test run to see how she works.
if it works well i will clean up the wiring mess

Attachment: dcmotor 002.jpg (Downloaded 187 times)

Posted: Tue Dec 4th, 2012 11:32 PM

Cavallino
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Geeze, I like the copper media trick.., I have a Thumblers, but the idea of a softer media material than the stainless is pretty cool. Looks like it works well.

Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2012 03:13 AM

swampratt
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yes it works well.
oklahunter gave me some brass that he ran through his walnut media and his ultra sonic..these are the splochy 243 rounds
he also gave me some other ugly cases..
I needed a good tester today so 3.5 hours in the tumbler with copper pins.
BEFORE PIC

Attachment: dirty and clean brass 010.jpg (Downloaded 147 times)

Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2012 03:16 AM

swampratt
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that dirty stuff on the cases is splochy not dirt
The case next to the bullet is a 270 fail to fire that was found at the range he pulled the round and it was greenish.
the other dark round is a RP 308 very green and it did not clean as well i have it circled.
The splochy is all gone

Attachment: dirty and clean brass 026.jpg (Downloaded 148 times)

Last edited on Sun Dec 9th, 2012 03:17 AM by swampratt

Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2012 02:35 PM

OKLHUNTER
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How does the insides of the two 06 cases look? they were pretty foul to start with.

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Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2012 03:18 PM

swampratt
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pretty darn clean inside

Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2012 03:57 PM

Rockydog
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swampratt wrote: pretty darn clean inside
You might want to check those pretty closely. I've had some cases that were heavily corroded that looked like those before they were cleaned. They were actually pretty thin due to the corrosion and cracked upon firing. RD

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Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2012 06:14 PM

swampratt
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Thanks Rockydog.
I was not even thinking of firing them , just a test of my cleaner and that is it..I gave them back to Oklahunter and he is not going to shoot them either.just lookieloos..
But the 270 brass that was really nice once fired that got cleaned along with those will get shot..

But those Oklahunter got also... :confused:

:confused:

But he gave me some of his jalapeno summer sausage

Posted: Thu Dec 20th, 2012 03:19 PM

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Ink-Jet Printer, Brass Washer

Ok, I just had to attempt to assemble my own version of a water based brass cleaner. Thanks Swampratt for tossing down the gauntlet!

The number one objective was that it had to be done at little to no cost! And yes Marie, I am just that cheap! This is one of those projects that has been waiting for the right bit of salvage to come along, specifically the where with all to make a suitable roller-carriage to spin the cleaning jug.

As luck sometimes provides, yesterday was the day the roller carriage showed up! We just, in the last week replaced our secondhand P.O.S. HP Ink-Jet printer with a great new WiFi Laser printer (can you say cheap B&W custom targets at about 3 cents each!).

So, I began with some delicate destructive disassembly in order to find out what sort of booty the dead printer may yield. It was like unwrapping a Christmas present! There, in the hart of that inky mess was the perfect set of rollers, gears and drive motor!

The second major component was the wash jug and that (actually several large bags of them) were given to me by a friend that thought they’d make fun “water targets”. Well he was wrong about that, but those heavy-duty jugs have proven to be handy beyond belief and have been pressed into countless uses around the farm over the last couple of years! The brass washer being the latest reuse for an item which was originally destined to become a bit of landfill.

The operating voltage of the motor carriage was unknown, but as the original power supply of the printer was of a standard “computer” 15 volt DC type I went with the assumption that 12 volts was likely safe. After a few quick tests wherein I found that RPM seemed to stabilized and current draw began to spike at 14 volts I knew I was on the right track. As it turned out under load the motor draws just at ½ amp at battery voltage of 13.8 VDC.

As the pictures show the mounting of the carriage was straight forward and Spartan. I wired up the motor to a salvaged U.P.S. back-up gel-cell battery (uninterruptible power supply, not the brown truck guys). Lord knows they sure do throw away the best stuff nearly every day where I go for a day job and a handsome paycheck too! The battery charger is a home brew that was built from plans provided by a 1970’s vintage “73’s” Ham Radio magazine. At some point down the road I may dig through the crate of wall-warts and see if there isn’t a suitable one at 12 volt’s DC that would carry the motor load easily. A quick mount of an on/off switch and a fuse to keep it all safe and we are ready for the first test.

What I found was that the wash jug would clime as it rotated so a quick modification to the mounting base board was needed to elevate one side of the carriage. A couple of ¼ 20 blind nuts and bolts and a little adjustment and the jug spin’s without attempting to run off the end of the rollers. As a final modification I installed a small bearing at the end to insure that jug wouldn’t migrate over time as it had a tendency to do.

As the wash jug was mostly cylindrical in shape the next problem was to provide some type of agitator. As it worked out that was a simple matter. I pushed in through the opening a 3 foot length of 3/8” vinyl tubing and twisted so as to coil it as it was shoved into the jug. I also capped/sealed the ends of the tube so that the media wouldn’t collect inside the tube. As can be seen in the video the tubing works splendidly to keep the brass and media moving inside the jug.

The media is short cut lengths of copper wire (thanks for the great idea Swampratt!) and the wash solution is a 1% mix of Lemishine and drop or two of Dawn dish washing liquid. The wash jug easily holds a couple pounds of brass, two quarts of liquid and the printer carriage spins it all at 55 RPM. My first batch of .223 brass came out clean as the snow in a Disney film!

Total out of pocket cost for the project? Best I can figure, is somewhat less than a penny. All I had to pay for was the electricity to pump the 2 qts of water from the well and the drop of dishwashing liquid, everything else was salvaged and or the proceeds of “creative dumpster diving”. Even the Lemishine was a free sample the wife picked up somewhere!

Many thanks to all the fellows on the H.B. forum as without your input this project would never have been completed, or for that matter even thought of!

Video of it washing some brass...

Last edited on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 03:29 PM by Guncrank

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Most evil men will not be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda or by legislation; however, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
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Posted: Thu Dec 20th, 2012 04:12 PM

swampratt
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Guncrank that is awesome..
Printers are plentiful What a great idea..and the tubing inside the round cleaning tub.. genius!!

You noticed the climbing of the cylinder...I do not think i mentioned that..But if you look at the rollers of mine i have a big build up of duct tape on 1 roller to hold the tub from walking up the rollers...

Now if the DC motor you have is reversible you can make the container walk the other direction by spinning it in reverse..

WOW! everyone should be able to find a cheap of free printer
and be on their way to pin tumbling...

How many and what size are your pins..How about a picture of them??
I use 1/8teaspoon lemishine in my container...
water will be all nasty color and most of the bubbles gone from the soap when they are done...2-4 hours
How long did you run your batch?

Posted: Thu Dec 20th, 2012 04:31 PM

Zeeba
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Crank,
Every day, I've stared at a clunker wide-carriage HP printer, plotting the day I do an "Office Space" on it. Instead of wasting valuable lead to bring about its ultimate demise, I will indeed 'surgerize' the miserable SOB and give it a new identity.
Moochest grassiest for a brilliant idea(r).

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Posted: Thu Dec 20th, 2012 05:53 PM

Rockydog
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GC, Unfreakin' believeable. Awesome. I'd thought about the same thing but consulted with some IT buddies who convinced me that the printer would not have enough power. I shouldn't have listened to them. RD :stupid:

:stupid:

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Posted: Thu Dec 20th, 2012 06:26 PM

swampratt
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On that line of thinking you could also use a paper shredder
teeth removed of course.

Posted: Thu Dec 20th, 2012 07:00 PM

Guncrank
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swampratt wrote: On that line of thinking you could also use a paper shredder
teeth removed of course.
Not sure on the shredder. I suppose that it would mostly depend on whether the teeth were removable. But, it sure would have enough motor to do the job!

As to the copper pins... I had some 10 ga stranded laying around and snipped lengths from just less than a 1/4" to perhaps 3/8" and cut up a good 3 feet worth. I figured what the fudge, the more the merrier!

Rockydog,

There were two moters in the HP I ripped into, one for the paper the other to move the print-head, both look to be the same (mounting wise) and both seem to have the same belt drive pulley on their shaft's. So, even if the original doesn't last I've got a spare. However, even after running for an hour straight under "full load" the motor is no more than warm to the touch, perhaps 90 to 100 degrees F!
I'm thinking she'll last a good while.

Zeeba,

All said and done I've likely got around 8 hours invested (so far) the largest portion of time was eaten up in the trial and error process. But it's been a fun project!
Since my original post I've tinkered with the design and have a couple more "tweaks" I intend to make. I'll upload a few more pictures and perhaps a video in the next day or so, as soon as I'm happy with the final design.

____________________
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Abe

Most evil men will not be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda or by legislation; however, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
- Lt. Colonel John Dean "Jeff" Cooper (paraphrased)

Posted: Sat Dec 22nd, 2012 11:47 AM

Zeeba
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Swamp~
What diameter is the wire strands in that 1/0 cable you're using, and the number of individual strands?
I'm going to use the copper media as a test for suitability of my color print processor motor base, and if it works as intended, would spring for the stainless media.
I had some copper cable of unknown size laying around from a sub-panel job I did some 25 years ago. This cable has 7 strands of .058 diameter wire. So far, I've snipped the 30-inch long strands to a length of 3/16"-1/4" long, but it seems I'm getting a disappointing amount of pins for my efforts. I've already got the formation of a blister on my right-hand ring finger from working the cutter, and I should probably research a more efficient (and less painful) method of cutting the wire up. The paper cutter method is a bust, as the wire has a tendency to bend and jam the blade most times.
It's amazing the things we do to save a buck!

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Posted: Sat Dec 22nd, 2012 12:04 PM

swampratt
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I do not know the count size in the 1/0
You can cut them longer i have cut some from 1/4" to 3/4" and those thick ones are like .074"
and the smaller wire size i tried is like .048" to .065" off the top of my head....

It ain't really picky on wire diameter...
If you are using dykes or lineman pliers to cut you will be in much more pain than using these.
I use the red ones but not like it matters..
And only 3-4 strands at a time..easier if they are all laying flat than if they are twisted up....
I will say it will take less time to cut the copper from a 3 foot section of wire that it does to get the meat out of a 1/2 gallon of NON cracked pecans...
Either way those both take time and you will be rewarded.

http://www.eastwood.com/wiss-aviation-tin-snips-3-piece-set-m1r-m2r-m3r.html?srccode=ga220010&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=zzproduct_ads&adtype=pla&kw=&gclid=CIjf9NqIrrQCFeuPPAodPnwAAQ

Posted: Sat Dec 22nd, 2012 03:40 PM

Guncrank
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Ok, as promised, the pictures and 20 second video clips of the final version in action of my HP Ink-Jet Brass Washer...
video 1
video 2
video 3
video 4

____________________
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Abe

Most evil men will not be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda or by legislation; however, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
- Lt. Colonel John Dean "Jeff" Cooper (paraphrased)

Posted: Sun Dec 23rd, 2012 12:25 PM

Zeeba
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Sorry guys, I caved. I direct my apologies to swampratt and Guncrank in particular, because both of these guys were a true inspiration even though my patience ran out.
I originally was going to use a motorized base that I had from my film developing days combined with a PVC drum, but found the motor was really too slow, underpowered, and the drive wheels would slip continuously if the barrel had any weight in it. Also, these drive wheels depended on large O-rings around the perimeter of the discs to provide the necessary friction to rotate the barrel, but again, any weight would make them slip. Timing the empty barrel on the base yielded a whopping 22 RPM - insufficient speed in my book. Placing 2 pounds of copper pins and a half-gallon of water in the drum yielded 0 RPM, but a lot of humming.
Then I proceeded to destroy an HP 2800 Business Ink Jet in order to get the paper-handling carriage and motor out of it. I must say, THIS part was extremely satisfying, as this POS gave me more grief and chest pains than any other device in my life. Again, the provided motor could barely get the drum spinning - even empty. Meh.
So, I went online, and purchased me a Christmas gift (that's my story anyway) a Thumler's Tumbler. I seem to have lucked out, since they just came back into stock. In about a week or so, I should be de-griming a bunch of 7.62 x 25 Tokarev brass and all will be right with the world.
My sore fingers from cutting up wire pins rejoice the day.
Thank you one and all, Merry Christmas, God bless us everyone.

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Posted: Sun Dec 23rd, 2012 12:39 PM

swampratt
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HEY great attempt though..
My first attempt was a fail.. as i used an old craig AM-FM 8 track with turn table..I took it apart when i could not give it away for free on craigslist.
So i had 2 small motors and they spun the drum fine when i had just water in it.
Then add pins and brass..I got the same HUMMMMM and no spinnin'
So i got out the drill....I would bet with a small cheap drill you could have the printer one spinnin'....

BRIGHT SIDE...You have copper pins.. you know what you want for end results.

I have no idea if you ordered stainless pins.. but if so you could do a back to back test vs copper

Posted: Thu Dec 27th, 2012 01:44 AM

swampratt
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Guncrank and any others here is some info.
The solution in the bottle will dry your hands with repeated use...use gloves..
Or keep your hands out of it.

When my bottle is done spinnin i pour the liquid out and rinse the brass and pins by filling the bottle back up with hot water and shaking it around and pouring it out...

I do this about 4-5 times...To keep the pins and brass from going down the drain or leaving the bottle while pouring out the liquid i have a small piece of nylon window screen i hold over the mouth of the bottle...

After i am finished rinsing i pour it all out onto a towel.
Shake all pins out of the brass , then blot pins kind of dry and pour them onto a folded piece of construction paper.
Folded to create a funnel effect to pour the pins back into the bottle..

How have you been doing it Guncrank.?
Maybe your way is easier or at least different.

Posted: Thu Dec 27th, 2012 02:32 AM

Rockydog
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swampratt wrote:
Guncrank and any others here is some info.
The solution in the bottle will dry your hands with repeated use...use gloves..
Or keep your hands out of it.

This is probably the most important advice I've read in the 4 pages of this thread. There are some disagreements as to whether residues from primers, powder, and fine scrapings from lead bullets can be absorbed through the skin. But there is no doubt that they can be ingested by smoking, drinking and eating things that come in contact with contaminated hands. Please heed the advice given above and wear rubber or latex gloves when handling the cases and leftover liquid from the tumbling process. And wash hands thoroughly after you take the gloves off to be doubly sure. Great post and reminder Swampratt. RD

____________________
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Posted: Thu Dec 27th, 2012 09:50 AM

Zeeba
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Here's a tip I eventually used to speed up cutting the copper wire, after taking another 5 years off the life of my hands:
I originally was using a pair (actually 4 pair) of wire strippers that had a scissor-type cutter near the hinge pin.

The cutting surfaces became smeared with copper and really made squeezing the handles harder as time went on. This was why I said I used 4 pair of them.

I finally ended up using the bolt-cutter portion of another pair (the last resort?) and wish I'd used them from the beginning.

Placing the wire in the smallest hole - for #4 screws - I was able to snip the wire as fast as I could advance it through the tool, machine-gun style, with very little strain on my hand. The ends of the wire pins were cut very square, too.
My aviation-type snips had seen much better days, probably when Nixon was President, and couldn't cut the wire without a lot of force applied. I gave up on them very quickly.

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Posted: Thu Dec 27th, 2012 10:04 AM

Zeeba
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Geeze! I forgot another safety tip that I'd rather not experience again:
Make sure you know where the end of the wire is at all times while you're cutting it up.
The first few strands had a curve to them where one of them snuck up and poked me near my left eye - I never saw it coming - even though I was using safety glasses with side shields. Very scary.
I straightened the wire out a bit after that episode, and again wasn't watching where the loose end was swinging, and inadvertently poked the end into an electric outlet on the back of my bench. The shock was pretty mild (60v?), but scary nonetheless - considering there was a 220 volt outlet right next to the 120v one I poked. THAT would have been hair-raising.
In the immortal words of Sgt. Phil Esterhaus, "Hey. Let's be careful out there."

I've come to the realization that my life-purpose is to serve as an example to others.

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Posted: Thu Dec 27th, 2012 01:41 PM

swampratt
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OK Zeeba
we are taking your scissors and crayons away until you learn to play nice with yourself..
and either outlet would give you the same shock :wink:

:wink:

Any more of that type of posting needs to go here..just so you know..
http://www.handloadersbench.com/forum2/23929.html :wink:

:wink:

Oh and glad you did not fry yourself!!!!

I bet you can't wait till you get that tumbler in the mail.

Last edited on Thu Dec 27th, 2012 01:42 PM by swampratt

Posted: Fri Dec 28th, 2012 12:56 AM

alex30808
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Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread..this thread alone is the very reason I joined the site. Thanks again for the great ideas.

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Posted: Fri Dec 28th, 2012 02:14 AM

Guncrank
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swampratt wrote: Guncrank and any others here is some info.
The solution in the bottle will dry your hands with repeated use...use gloves..
Or keep your hands out of it.

When my bottle is done spinnin i pour the liquid out and rinse the brass and pins by filling the bottle back up with hot water and shaking it around and pouring it out...

I do this about 4-5 times...To keep the pins and brass from going down the drain or leaving the bottle while pouring out the liquid i have a small piece of nylon window screen i hold over the mouth of the bottle...

After i am finished rinsing i pour it all out onto a towel.
Shake all pins out of the brass , then blot pins kind of dry and pour them onto a folded piece of construction paper.
Folded to create a funnel effect to pour the pins back into the bottle..

How have you been doing it Guncrank.?
Maybe your way is easier or at least different.
Swampratt,

Well, no I cant say that what I'm doing to separate the cases from the solution and pins is better, faster or easier. I'm thinking its just going to be a pain in the posterior no matter what.

What I'm doing is to carefully, so as not to dump any of the pins or cases, pour off the wash water into a second jug. Then the small amount of remaining wash water, the pins and cases are dumped into the rotary Media Separator I use for the vibratory brass cleaner, cases and pins are separated. The cases are then water rinsed and dried by washing in denatured alcohol.

One hot tip though, find some felt the thicker the better and a 6" or larger diameter funnel. Use the felt to filter the used washing liquid. I use a swatch about 8"x 8" of felt material that was originally part of a 1 micron 70% filter bag (LeSac Corp. 773-247-0077) (a PS2-PE1 if memory is correct) cost was under $5 each. This is a 32" or 36" length by 10" diameter sock filter bag (again if memory serves correct).

Anyway, I cut the felt to size and place it into a funnel and filter not only the wash water but also the denatured alcohol used to dry out the brass. this removes about 95% of all the crud from the liquid(s) leaving it amazingly clear.

As to the pins they, after a clean water rinsing, I lay the pins out on a paper towel to dry.

Ok, I have to admit that I broke down and spent the long buck for a 5 pound bag of stainless steel pins. I believe that the citric acid bath is eating away at the copper pins and causing a slight darkening discoloration of/to the brass cases. Will report on the outcome of the stainless vs. the copper "homemade" pins as soon as the nice guy in the brown reloading stuff truck drop's them off.

____________________
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Abe

Most evil men will not be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda or by legislation; however, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
- Lt. Colonel John Dean "Jeff" Cooper (paraphrased)

Posted: Tue Jan 8th, 2013 01:38 AM

Guncrank
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Just a quick additional note...

I spent the long buck and picked up a bag of stainless pins.
They work much better and faster than the home-made copper pins. The copper pins took about 3 to 4 hours where the stainless pins work as well in half the time.

After about 20 wash cycles the copper pins were showing signs of being affected by the LemiShine and dish washing liquid mix. Further, the copper pins were causing the cases to become discolored during the wash cycle.

IMHO:

The stainless pins are worth the cost.
You are able to leave the stainless pins in the wash water without affect and they do a better job quicker. Where as the copper pins had to be removed, washed and dried or the citric acid in the LemiShine caused them to corrode.

Last edited on Tue Jan 8th, 2013 01:39 AM by Guncrank

____________________
Kind regards,
Abe

Most evil men will not be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda or by legislation; however, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
- Lt. Colonel John Dean "Jeff" Cooper (paraphrased)

Posted: Tue Jan 8th, 2013 01:51 AM

Zeeba
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Guncrank wrote: Just a quick additional note...

I spent the long buck and picked up a bag of stainless pins.
They work much better and faster than the home-made copper pins. The copper pins took about 3 to 4 hours where the stainless pins work as well in half the time.

After about 20 wash cycles the copper pins were showing signs of being affected by the LemiShine and dish washing liquid mix. Further, the copper pins were causing the cases to become discolored during the wash cycle.

IMHO:

The stainless pins are worth the cost.
You are able to leave the stainless pins in the wash water without affect and they do a better job quicker. Where as the copper pins had to be removed, washed and dried or the citric acid in the LemiShine caused them to corrode.

That's good to know, GC. I've got a REAL tumbler coming on Wednesday, and per swapratt's request was gonna do a comparison test of cases with copper, and stainless pins when I got it set up.
Now, what am I gonna do with 3 pounds of hand-numbing, and finger-blistering copper pins? :wink:

:wink:

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Posted: Tue Jan 8th, 2013 02:03 AM

swampratt
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Now you used 10 gauge stranded wire correct?
What is the diameter of the 10Gauge strands compared to the stainless diameter..?

Posted: Tue Jan 8th, 2013 02:04 AM

alex30808
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You could send them my way!!! LOL...I have a home made rotary tumbler that a guy made about 15 years ago from a set of cargo rollers and a 120v motor. He used a maxwell house coffee can with silicone "ribs" inside the can and used walnut hull and red rouge...why red rouge I'll never know cause the cases always came out red!!! anyway....I picked up a one gallon plastic jug (pickled eggs) from a gas station as they were throwing it away. All I need now is a few pounds of pins.

Last edited on Tue Jan 8th, 2013 02:05 AM by alex30808

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Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2013 11:00 PM

Guncrank
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swampratt wrote: Now you used 10 gauge stranded wire correct?
What is the diameter of the 10Gauge strands compared to the stainless diameter..?
Swampratt,

The copper pins were .01" smaller diameter being .030".

Were I pressed for a theory as to why the stainless pins are working better, I'd have to say it's the weight. The copper pins being smaller in diameter by 25% simply weighed less and didn't have the mass to do as efficient/quick a job as the stainless pins. Perhaps if I had .04" diameter copper pins they would work as well or maybe even slightly better as the specific gravity of copper is a little higher than stainless.

The real down side is of course is that the copper are adversely affected by the citric acid where as the stainless isn't. The copper pins really must be fresh water rinsed and air dried after every use, where as the stainless pins can be left in the soap and Lemishine solution without worry.

____________________
Kind regards,
Abe

Most evil men will not be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda or by legislation; however, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
- Lt. Colonel John Dean "Jeff" Cooper (paraphrased)

Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2013 01:21 AM

FOUR4D4
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Use kitty litter

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Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2013 01:37 AM

swampratt
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The weight is what i was thinking also
mine being .048 and .065 and .074" diameter makes a great mix.
And yes i do rinse well in hot water then shake it all dry and lay it all out on a towel..The pins get dry quick and the outside of the cases are dry in a few seconds.

Hot water makes hot brass dry towel and dry air..makes easy cleaning..
But i do like that the stainless works in a quicker wash time for you..
Pretty cool build a tumbler buy some pins add some mix..Presto!!!

Posted: Fri Jan 11th, 2013 12:51 AM

Guncrank
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FOUR4D4 wrote: Use kitty litter
The cat litter just gets too mushy in the soap, Lemishine and water wash solution. Where as the stainless pins seem to hold together just long enough to get the job done.
Besides with all those "cat-clumps" it's near about impossible to get the stuff in the jug without making a huge mess.

____________________
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Abe

Most evil men will not be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda or by legislation; however, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
- Lt. Colonel John Dean "Jeff" Cooper (paraphrased)

Posted: Fri Jan 11th, 2013 02:46 AM

swampratt
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OH yes those "cat-clumps".
The smell i can't get out of my brass..attracts lot's of flies and coyotes. :sofa:

:sofa:

Posted: Fri Jan 11th, 2013 10:47 PM

Guncrank
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swampratt wrote: OH yes those "cat-clumps".
The smell i can't get out of my brass..attracts lot's of flies and coyotes. :sofa:

:sofa:

Good lord! I didn't even consider the smell. Bet that near about ruins a good shootin'iron! :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

____________________
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Abe

Most evil men will not be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda or by legislation; however, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
- Lt. Colonel John Dean "Jeff" Cooper (paraphrased)

Posted: Sat Jan 12th, 2013 12:28 AM

Rory McCanuck
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The ammonia is hard on brass, too, isn't it ? :razz:

:razz:

Last edited on Sat Jan 12th, 2013 12:28 AM by Rory McCanuck

Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2013 05:40 AM

unclebuck
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In my 30 years of reloading I have never heard of any of this copper,stainless,boiling? what are yall doing just throw all your brass in the tumbler for 24 hrs. with walnut and maybe some dillon's case cleaner if they are really bad and you will be able to shave looking at them. but I reading and might try but that sounds expensive

Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2013 12:38 PM

swampratt
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The whole idea of the pin tumblers is to get the carbon out of the pockets..for me anyway..and eliminate the dust removal steps...and i needed to buy more media for the vibratory cleaner....
I have built this and have not purchased any media yet

I collected a few things for another build..a vacuum cleaner a copier and a sewing machine motor that is AC-DC
all from a fill ditch :troll:

:troll:

Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2013 10:55 PM

Guncrank
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Just a quick update on the Laser Jet Printer-Brass Washer.
I now have somewhere well north of a hundred hours on the HP Printer-Brass Washer and it shows no signs of impending failure of any kind! The motor carriage as it was removed from the HP printer and pressed into service as base for the brass washer has needed no repairs of any kind. To date I've cleaned several thousands of cases of both rifle and pistol calibers. All have come spotlessly clean in about 4 hours of tumbling.

IMHO:
The small amount of extra effort required to clean brass with this washing process is certainly worth the time savings as well as the superior finished product.

Cleaning with corncob or walnut in a vibratory tumbler, even after a 24 hour run time does not come close to the results seen in 1/6th the time of the washed brass!

All in all the time and meager funds invested in the creation of my version of a brass case washer have been well worth the effort!

____________________
Kind regards,
Abe

Most evil men will not be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda or by legislation; however, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
- Lt. Colonel John Dean "Jeff" Cooper (paraphrased)

Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2013 11:36 PM

swampratt
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EXCELLENT X 2!!!!!
You just proved what i had to prove to myself.
There is a better cheaper alternative

Posted: Sun Feb 17th, 2013 12:41 AM

Yote223
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Don't waste time on cleaning....absolutely no evidence that shiny brass is more accurate.

Posted: Sun Feb 17th, 2013 12:55 AM

swampratt
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Carbon down the barrel and in the chamber has proven to be quite erosive..this is one reason why i clean to the point of no carbon..Not shiny like polished,,in fact the pins will NOT make it that way.

I have seen better accuracy from polishing the neck ID with 0000 steel wool that is on a spinning bore brush..

That makes all necks inside consistent..Makes the bullets feel like the same amount of force is needed to seat each one. That you may want to try...made for .1"-.2" improvement in my groups.

AND if i can keep all the carbon out of the chamber my groups may stay tighter for a longer period of time...

Posted: Sun Feb 17th, 2013 02:08 AM

Guncrank
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Have to agree Swampratt. The more everything can be built the same, the more consistent the group size is!

____________________
Kind regards,
Abe

Most evil men will not be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda or by legislation; however, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
- Lt. Colonel John Dean "Jeff" Cooper (paraphrased)

Posted: Sun Feb 17th, 2013 04:16 AM

swampratt
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Sorry forgot to mention the best part of this pin tumbler.
It is cheap when you build your own..
I have less than 3 bucks in mine.
I have a broken printer and vacuum cleaner..may need to see if i can fab another one :wink:

:wink:

Posted: Sun Feb 17th, 2013 12:40 PM

Rockydog
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Swampratt, I don't think the vac motor will work. I tore one apart for that very reason. There are a couple of considerations. First, the motor runs so fast you'll have to do a couple of step downs with gears or belts. Think about how fast the beater bar runs and its driving on a belt from the bare shaft with no pulley on it. Secondly, after I got the motor out and removed the suction fan I plugged it in and damn, I thought a lot of the noise in a vacuum cleaner probably came from the fan. Not so! Remove that motor from the housing and it's a screaming son of a gun. Almost need hearing protection when you are anywhere near it. The sewing machine motor could be just the ticket. Especially if you have the variable speed pedal to adapt for setting the speed. RD

____________________
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Posted: Sun Feb 17th, 2013 02:16 PM

wheezengeezer
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Rockydog wrote: Swampratt, I don't think the vac motor will work. I tore one apart for that very reason. There are a couple of considerations. First, the motor runs so fast you'll have to do a coulde of step downs with gears or belts. Think about how fast the beater bar runs and its driving on a belt from the bare shaft with no pulley on it. Secondly, after I got the motor out and removed the suction fan I plugged it in and damn, I thought a lot of the noise in a vacuum cleaner probably came from the fan. Not so! Remove that motor from the housing and it's a screaming son of a gun. Almost need hearing protection when you are anywhere near it. The sewing machine motor could be just the ticket. Especially if you have the variable speed pedal to adapt for setting the speed. RD
Now that is a great idea.The speed can be adjusted to get the best "roll" of the media.

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Posted: Sun Feb 17th, 2013 03:56 PM

swampratt
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FAIL!!!! the vac motor does not have enough umph.
It is dc at least the one i got..it only drove the beater bar. 12Volts no dice..24 volts no dice....

So i took the coppier apart..Remind you this i found in a fill ditch....
Small dc motor 12Volts no dice..spun too slow..but spun the filled container...24 volts..now we are cookin.

My contraption is a bit easier to duplicate..I just disassembled down to the base...Cut the area out between the 2 rollers so the belly of the V8 container could rest on the rollers....
I will see how long it will last..motor seems warm..i laid some 30-06 and 45acp brass on it to try and pull some heat like a heat sink...
Spinnin about 2 revolutions a second with a load.

OH YES it stays centered up also..NO WALKING up the rollers..must be the grooves in the bottle line up with the roller rubbers...

Attachment: coppier tumbler.jpg (Downloaded 97 times)

Last edited on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 03:58 PM by swampratt

Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2013 02:50 PM

2Skulls
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I throw 2 or 3 old used dryer sheets in with my corncob and walnut medias. I 1/4 the sheets with sissors and then throw them out when done. It really keeps the dust down and makes the media last longer

Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2013 04:47 PM

swampratt
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Yes it does keep the dust down as do old socks and paper towels..but i never could eliminate ALL the dust.
My vibratory would run sometimes 20 hours a day cleaning different batches of brass..try that for a few weeks.

Will make you really tired of the constant dust and granuals on the floor...
Either way will work just matters how anal you become.

To some people motor oil for your car is motor oil for your car..it's all oil so don't really matter what you put in it.
it all meets OEM specs.

I am not some people though..98% of off the shelf oil to me is pure JUNK..not even good for chainsaw bar oil.

If you are happy with your motor oil and your brass regimen
Then you are good to go.
If every one followed the same path the world would be a dull place

Posted: Sat Mar 16th, 2013 04:35 AM

gsteffek
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I have a couple of questions. First where do I find these stainless pins you guys are talking about? Secondly do you ever have to deal with said pins being inside the casings when all is said and done?

Posted: Sun Mar 17th, 2013 03:54 AM

Guncrank
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gsteffek wrote: I have a couple of questions. First where do I find these stainless pins you guys are talking about? Secondly do you ever have to deal with said pins being inside the casings when all is said and done?
This is where I purchased my stainless steel pins... (be sitting down when you lay eyes on the price) steel-media-5-lb-bag" TARGET="_blank">Media Stainless

No. Ive had zero problems with the pins sticking inside the brass and I've cleaned quite an assortment of case sizes, both rifle and pistol.

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Most evil men will not be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda or by legislation; however, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
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Posted: Mon Mar 18th, 2013 06:52 PM

BowFreak84
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I love MacGyver solutions :) Nice DIY thumbler!

Posted: Wed Mar 20th, 2013 02:29 AM

gsteffek
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Thanks Guncrank for the info. Now another question do you have to use pins or would stainless steel ball bearings work?? Does the cleaning have something to do with the ends of the pins or is it just the combination of the cleaning solution and the constant hitting of the metal against the cases?

Posted: Wed Mar 20th, 2013 02:29 PM

swampratt
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if you have some small enough ball bearings to get in along the sides of the primer pockets and everywhere else i would feel the weight would not be much..

But is still may work..that is the thing with something out of the ordinary..you never know until you give it a try.

Posted: Wed Mar 20th, 2013 03:01 PM

gsteffek
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Thanks swampratt!

Posted: Wed Mar 20th, 2013 05:37 PM

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Here is the one I built with my son. It's bed frame angle iron for the frame and powered by a furnace fan. I have about $60 into it.

We also built a few 6 inch diameter PVC barrels. They use 6 inch end caps on one end and a four inch reducer with a removable rubber cap on the other.

I love the way the SS pins clean the primer hole and flash tubes for my son, the competative shooter.

EDIT: He wanted a rock tumbler too, so we built it solid. It'll handle quite a load of rock. I think we've run as much as 7 pounds so far and it's been run for weeks at a time, so I'm happy with the setup.

Attachment: tumbler.jpg (Downloaded 104 times)

Last edited on Wed Mar 20th, 2013 05:43 PM by jib

Posted: Wed Mar 20th, 2013 09:15 PM

swampratt
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jib that is an excellent looking tumbler..Great job

Posted: Thu Mar 21st, 2013 12:34 AM

jib
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swampratt wrote:
jib that is an excellent looking tumbler..Great job

Thank you! If I ever get to mounting the cooling fan permanently, it'll be done too.

Jack

Last edited on Thu Mar 21st, 2013 12:35 AM by jib

Posted: Thu Mar 21st, 2013 01:59 AM

swampratt
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I noticed that fan and i also noticed the extra amount of fan motor shaft..i would almost bet a fan could be installed on that motor

Posted: Thu Mar 21st, 2013 02:59 AM

jib
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swampratt wrote:
I noticed that fan and i also noticed the extra amount of fan motor shaft..i would almost bet a fan could be installed on that motor

Thanks Swamprat. Yes, I did mount several different fans on that extended shaft. I really didn't want an seperate external fan. Unfortunately, I couldn't generate enough airflow to keep the motor from tripping out on high temperature. At 1,070 RPM a fan blade isn't spinning fast enough to generate enough air to keep it cool. In the furnace, that motor is directly was the air stream. I have my eyes out for a motor with an internal fan. That is the best solution.

I do appreciate the suggestion though.

Last edited on Thu Mar 21st, 2013 03:01 AM by jib

Posted: Thu Mar 21st, 2013 12:22 PM

swampratt
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I knew how those squirrel cage fans cooled the motors and also thought may not work ...

Here is food for thought.. at my son's house the fan motor on the condensing unit was tripping due to the extreme heat we had last summer.
I built a shade for the unit..no dice.
So i changed the fan to change pitch...no dice.
the unit pulls lot's of air...i figured the capacitor was bad. changed it ...no dice...
Just tooooo stinking hot....So i had this aluminum channel about 3" wide 3/16" thick I made heat sinks and wrapped the motor with these and used a couple large hose clamps to hold them together...some dielectric grease between the heat sinks and motor..

That worked like a charm....no more tripping the motor.

I have a small copier that i made a tumbler out of..
Little tiny motor..gets toasty..so i laid some empty brass casings on it....runs much cooler and the brass gets pretty warm...
Maybe a bunch of heat sinks could work..if you have that kind of stuff laying around...
and a small fan :wink:

:wink:

Posted: Tue Mar 26th, 2013 07:28 PM

jib
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Sorry, I've been on the road.

Having no moving parts to keep it cool is the ideal situation. There is nothing to fail. This is why I'm looking for a fan with an internal fan.

I thought about adding cooling fins and decided that the $5 fan I bought on Craiglist, when properly mounted, would be good enough. For brass, I'm only running 2-4 hours at a time. With rocks, it'll go for weeks, but my son is heading off to college in September, so I'm not too concerned.

I considered a water based computer cooling system copy too. Tubes around the motor to a small radiator. . . . . Naaaaa too complex.

Thanks for the great ideas though.

Last edited on Tue Mar 26th, 2013 07:29 PM by jib

Posted: Tue Mar 26th, 2013 08:44 PM

swampratt
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WOW! not complex really..
Just a small inline pump circulating water through copper or aluminum tubing and use a heater core for the small radiator.
Or a transmission cooler...
I tiny belt driven pump would be awesome :wink:

:wink:

But really hard to beat a $5 fan...I would probably stick with fan

Posted: Wed Apr 24th, 2013 05:41 PM

frank247
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wow. and all this time I have just been using corn cob

Posted: Wed May 1st, 2013 12:55 AM

natey57
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This thread has given me many ideas to build my own tumbler. Thanks everyone!

Posted: Wed May 1st, 2013 03:49 AM

jib
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natey57 wrote:
This thread has given me many ideas to build my own tumbler. Thanks everyone!

It's worth the trouble. I crank out 350 5.56 cases at once in my SS media tumbler (6 inch diameter PVC tube) and they look new after 3 hours. Best of all the primer pocket and flash tubes are completely clean too.

Posted: Thu May 2nd, 2013 02:33 AM

alex30808
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alex30808 wrote: You could send them my way!!! LOL...I have a home made rotary tumbler that a guy made about 15 years ago from a set of cargo rollers and a 120v motor. He used a maxwell house coffee can with silicone "ribs" inside the can and used walnut hull and red rouge...why red rouge I'll never know cause the cases always came out red!!! anyway....I picked up a one gallon plastic jug (pickled eggs) from a gas station as they were throwing it away. All I need now is a few pounds of pins.

Ok guys...I finally got my stainless pins on sale from Midway. Ordered them on Sunday evening...got them today. I used the coiled plastic tubing idea for an agitator in my 1 gallon jar....I put in close to 300 .223 brass that had been sized and de-primed...in to the jar with a cap full of .25% citric acid dishwasher cleaning solution, 5 pounds of stainless pins, a quick squirt of dish washing liquid, and about a half a gallon of water....less than an hour later the brass was spotless and the pockets were nice and clean.

Photos tomorrow evening.

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Posted: Fri May 3rd, 2013 12:01 AM

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Posted: Fri May 3rd, 2013 02:26 AM

jib
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Slick, isn't it?

Posted: Fri May 3rd, 2013 02:37 AM

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slick...OH YEAH...tis slick alright!!! I put in roughly 300 rounds of .223, a cap full of dishwasher cleaner (.25% citric acid)a good squirt of dish washing liquid...and 35-45 minutes later...that's what I've got!!!

It is a slight pain to separate the brass from the pins...and not loose any pins...but the quality of shine and depth of the cleaning process is worth the extra time.

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Posted: Fri May 3rd, 2013 04:05 AM

jib
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I was not ready to buy a separator, so I rigged a closed end tube made out of woven wire sheet. Turning it under water, so the cases tumble causes all the pins to drop free of the cases.

Posted: Fri May 3rd, 2013 10:49 AM

alex30808
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had not thought about that...I can use my standard media separator over an empty 5 gallon bucket and use the water hose to rinse the brass and drop the pins.

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Posted: Fri May 3rd, 2013 04:17 PM

RGB Sierra
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Cool setup :cool:

:cool:

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Posted: Fri May 3rd, 2013 06:37 PM

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so no paddles or any sort of mixing in the drum, just round? I made rollers like your so I could make my own Black Powder a long time ago. I then made a number of drums as well with PV C & fittings. I have a LOT of steel shot to use as media but I thought I would need to make new drums with paddles in them to make this system work. Otherwise things just don't tumble near as much as they would with paddles which is what develops the cleaning.

So if I was all wrong about this, I am already set. :cool:

:cool:

So all of this should work fine? I was thinking I would need to make a couple of new drums with [addles on them but if this works why bother to do more than wash the BP residue out of them and use them.

Attachment: Rollers.jpg (Downloaded 53 times)

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Posted: Sat May 4th, 2013 03:02 AM

alex30808
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just finished 300 more pcs of .223 brass...drying in the oven right now...and got 1000 pcs of 9mm running as we speak....I'll turn them off in 5 minutes and turn them back on in the morning before I go turkey hunting...

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Posted: Sat May 4th, 2013 10:27 AM

Guncrank
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GaryD wrote: so no paddles or any sort of mixing in the drum, just round?
Gary,

Many of us are using a length of coiled vinyl hose as the "paddles" to keep the brass and pins tumbling properly. See page 4 of this thread for what I use in my rendition of the brass washer.

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Posted: Sat May 4th, 2013 09:57 PM

alex30808
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Question....

Water Spots....

How are yall keeping them from discoloring the brass? I've had to re tumble some due to the spots...I am sure there's no physical damage from water spots...they just don't look "Purdy"....lol
Do yall clean via the wet tumbler and polish via vibratory/media/polish?

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Posted: Sun May 5th, 2013 01:47 AM

jib
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alex30808 wrote:
Question....

Water Spots....

Use a bit of lemonshine and a few drops of dawn detergent and rinse really well and there will be no water spots. The dawn has surfactants that prevent the spotting.

Jack

Posted: Sun May 5th, 2013 01:37 PM

alex30808
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That's more than likely the problem...I can't find the lemishine...but after reading this post from start to finish, I was able to gather that it was the need for citric acid...so I got a dishwasher cleaner that is citric acid based...and I had some off brand detergent...I'll make sure I get some dawn and try it on the next batch. I did a search on the Envirotech (makers of Lemishine) and found it listed at Kroger and Publix. I'll have to swing by one of them next week and see if I can find it.

Last edited on Sun May 5th, 2013 01:45 PM by alex30808

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Posted: Sun May 5th, 2013 02:49 PM

jib
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Go easy on both and rinse well. I had some spotting and back off on the amounts of both the lemishine and dawn and the spotting went away.

Posted: Sun May 5th, 2013 10:12 PM

alex30808
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that could be my issue also...I was a little heavy on the citric acid and only 3-4 drops of detergent.

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Posted: Thu May 9th, 2013 06:29 PM

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Lemishine makes a rinsing agent that I use to avoid spots. After I rinse all the brass free of the Lemishine detergent, I put them into a solution of the rinsing agent then I drain them and dry them. No spots. I think any of the rinsing agents like it, say even Jet Dry, would work as well.

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Posted: Fri May 10th, 2013 01:08 AM

alex30808
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When I see was looking at limi shine site I seen that rense

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Posted: Fri May 10th, 2013 03:24 PM

GaryD
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I just put a squirt into a small 4 gal bucket, it doesn't take a lot then as they get rinse I toss them into the rinse agent solution.
Then, when they are all done, I drain them by pouring this rinse agent bucket into a colander.
Then I put them onto sheets of newspaper in the sun to dry, no spots.

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