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Bullet Pointing Dies
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 Posted: Thu Mar 13th, 2014 12:47 PM
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jackson1
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Like SavageShooter, I like shooting Sierra blem bullets. This past week on business road trip, my shooting partner brought up the question of meplat trimming. I showed him the thead and upon reading Swampshooter's report, he became more interested. We were working in Grinell Iowa and made the short trip to Brownell's, where we picked up both their catalog and Sinclair's. In the catalog we checked out the tools further. For me and my Wilson trimmer the Widden looks like the best bet. I am going to try it. Hopefully it improves my Sieera blems.



 Posted: Fri Mar 14th, 2014 12:23 PM
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swampshooter

 

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Weighing and sorting by weight will do a lot to improve results with Sierra blems.



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 Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2014 08:20 PM
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SavageShooter



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**Update**

I shot a few strings of bullets that were pointed versus non-pointed bullets in my Custom Savage 260 Rem over the weekend while in Texas. Since it was the best place to test these pointed bullets since I could realistically test them out to 550 yards. Here is what I did for my test.

When most people left the long range, I went down to the 500M steel targets and freshened up the paint on a 24" gong that had black crosshairs painted on it. Wanted to make sure that when I hit it, I'd know it was only my impact marks. Had Wayne (PDogShooter) spot for me and then proceeded to shoot four 5 shot strings. Since I had already confirmed I was hitting that gong before painting it, holding over for wind was easy and elevation was already spot on. My results surprised me. First group was about 1" below the horizontal crosshairs on the gong at the 7 o'clock position. Spread was left to right, but the horizontal difference was about 1" +/-. So the second group of five were pointed bullets. They impacted about 3" above the horizontal crosshair on the gong at the 11 o'clock position. Again, vertical was 1" +/- and all were left of the vertical crosshair. Very interesting

I shot the last two 5 shot groups (non-pointed, then pointed) and got pretty much the exact same results as the first time. Vertical spread was 1" +/- on both groups while the horizontal spread was about 3"-4".

To me...I'm thinking pointing bullets is worth the squeeze. But since this was at 550 Yards (500M) and I was getting damn near a 5" spread between the pointed versus the non-pointed, I'm thinking I should get a 1" spread (vertical) at 100 yards, but we'll see next time I get out to shoot. If this is the case, then my math says I can save 10" at 1000 yards. My groups above the horizontal crosshairs on the gong were better than those below it. But I'm not putting any stock into that. Wind was off/on and I didn't really try go pay much attention to it since it was not consistent. It was about vertical differences to me.

Thoughts?



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 Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2014 09:55 PM
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swampshooter

 

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I would pay more attention to the vertical spread than the horizontal, especially with the on again off again winds we were having. But the decreased horizontal group size of the pointed bullets and the higher impact on target indicates to me that an improvement in BC has more than likely occurred. Two each is really not a large enough sample to be sure though.

I'm thinking 5" difference at 500 yds. would probably equate to 15" difference at 1,000 yds. The second 500 yds. is where the improvement in BC will really show up on target. Differences at 100 yds. might not be much at all.



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 Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2014 10:29 PM
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SavageShooter



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I'd have tried the Buffalo, but that's too much of a PITA to get to him and I'm not sure I had enough paint to cover that big SoB. :wink:



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 Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2014 12:23 AM
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olyeller
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SS, were the non-pointed bullets the blems or regular 1st quality?



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 Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2014 10:02 AM
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swampshooter

 

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You can weave in and out of the fences and drive down to at least 1,000 yds. It's not far to the buffalo from there. I did it Thursday.



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 Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2014 02:14 PM
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bstark
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Sounds like excellent confirmation that you improve BC with bullet pointing. I'd be willing to bet that in the absence of wind, your horizontal spread would have equaled the vertical. Bryan Litz, in his book Applied Ballistics, states a roughly 3% improvement in BC as a result of pointing. He also states what that translates to at various distances. If I recall his numbers correctly, your observations coincide very closely.



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 Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2014 02:18 PM
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SavageShooter



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olyeller wrote:
SS, were the non-pointed bullets the blems or regular 1st quality?


They were both blems. My goal was to see if I could get factory 1st performance from blems if I pointed them. Truth is, I think I get factory 1st performance from most of the blems regardless. (In the SMK line) You'll notice your soft lead tips will have some that need love.

So pointing seems to be "worth the squeeze" for me at least. I'm interested to see how well they point up the longer 7mm bullets and some 30 caliber.



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 Posted: Thu May 1st, 2014 02:46 PM
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olyeller
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I loaded 10 blems and 10 first qual in 277 150gr to compare groups.
Will post results when I can get to the range.



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 Posted: Thu May 1st, 2014 04:18 PM
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jackson1
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Have not tested in the field yet, but made my own bullet trimmer for my Wilson trimmer. Got some 1/2 diameter 4140 Turn, Ground, and Polished steel rod (mics .499 in diameter) and a 3/16" HSS center cutting 2 flute end mill. Drilled and reamed a 3/16" hole in the rod, in a lathe, slid the lock tite coated end mill in the hole, and attached a handle. Placing a loaded round in a Wilson shell holder, it trims nicely. Recently added the micrometer stop to my trimmer for easy adjustment. I read some bad reviews on the plastic tool, so this became my alternative. My cost was under $20, for my universal trimmer.



 Posted: Sun May 25th, 2014 06:46 AM
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president100
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SS good write up thanks for the info.



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 Posted: Sun May 25th, 2014 01:18 PM
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swampshooter

 

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Jackson I, I have to confirm those not very well pleased reports on the delrin bullet meplat trimmers as sold by Sinclair and Hoover. I make do with mine by actually using a fine file to do most of the trimming of the bullet tip and then just finishing with the bullet meplat trimmer.

I'm setting up to test Sierra MK's just uniformed by segregating, weighing and measuring length to ogive, then trimming and uniforming the meplats before I start pointing. Reports indicate that at least half of the improvement occurs by smoothing and uniforming the meplat.

Others report that to point the bullets properly you need to trim and uniform the meplats, then point the bullets and then trim the meplat again just enough to make sure that the meplats are all uniform. I'm going to test this one step at a time to see just how far I want to go with this entire process. At my age I don't know that my scores will improve enough to justify this entire process. It takes a long time to trim the meplats of 100 bullets. Probably eight hours with the equipment that I have and after two hrs. my hands are cramping from holding the bullets. At some point the shooter is the limiting factor. I'm going to shoot a 60 rd. registered thousand yard match this next week-end with my bullet meplats trimmed only as step one of my tests. I have my come-ups recorded from 300 yds. to 1,000 yds. already with non-trimmed Sierra 180 MK's. Winds down here have been incredibly tough everyday this spring though, we'll see how it goes.



____________________
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Velocity is like a new car, always losing value
BC is like diamonds, maintaining value forever


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