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Bullet Seating Depth
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 Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2014 01:45 AM
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Rick56
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I have a AR-15 and I'm trying to determine the best COL for my rifle. Is there a way I can do this with making up a "dummy" round?



 Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2014 03:40 AM
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ACrowe25
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A jacketed bullet or a cast boolit?



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 Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2014 06:19 PM
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Ruffian
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Rick56,:confused:

      Its a AR you use a magazine right..:wink:.only make them as long as the bullets flow from the magazine...( It is not a bolt / single shot ) can only make them so long and that's it...sorry !!!! the ogive  of bullet will effect  the seating depth...its the magazine you have to please........and get past it !!!!
      Not going to matter if its jacketed or cast or swaged the COAL is only going so far for the magazine and let the bullets chamber.......... as long as you don't exceed the length of the magazine..it will be fine !

       I have a dummy round for all my rifles.... ( Keep primer out of case ) What are you loading 55gr FMJBT w/c....???       2.250 " maybe 2.260" ??????? will be your max or very close to it...so as long as you below you be fine.....have fun and good luck

Last edited on Wed Apr 23rd, 2014 06:49 PM by Ruffian



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 Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2014 02:14 AM
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fryboy
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it'll depend upon several things ( some major and some minor ) suffice to say at this point all we know is that you're wanting to load for a ar-15 ,we're not sure of caliber ( tho most of us think of a .223 bore ) , ruffian's post touches on some of it but let me add that every barrel may have it's own "best" preference , the heavy projectile match shooters do not use the mag to load for ,it's a slow single fire affair , if you're wishing to seat for crimping then the bullet's cannelure usually dictates where to seat the bullet
something else for us to wonder about is actual caliber designation and perhaps chamber ( especially that ) i'd make it as long as the chamber and mag allow if at all possible ( if you're using the mag that is ) without jamming it into the rifling when chambered ,a boat tail perhaps would benefit the most from being closer to the lands , that "perhaps" applies strongly ...your chamber may prefer .030 or .003 off of the lands

:moved:

what i do know is that i'm going to move this thread to a more proper place ,this one is more about game animals and hunting , however it's debatable whether rifles ,battle rifles , or reloading for rifles is the most appropriate sub-forum ,i'll go with the last :wink:


i also have to ask ...which projectile and caliber do you have ? ( .223 or .556 ? ) and if a standard chamber ?



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 Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2014 03:08 AM
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shastaboat
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For an AR based rifle the OAL is controlled solely by the magazine length as Ruffian stated. Obviously some of you guys really don't shoot ARs.



 Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2014 03:51 AM
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fryboy
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one can go shorter ... or longer if single fire

for most projectiles 2.25" - 2.26" max is where you'll be ,my 40 grain v-max's do best @ 2.137 i wouldnt however try that with a 90 grain berger [shrugz]



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 Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2014 04:04 AM
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shastaboat
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fryboy, you are exactly right!



 Posted: Sat Apr 26th, 2014 07:11 PM
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Rick56
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If I go to the cannelure I'm around 2.210 or shorter some of the brass that I got which was already trimmed and primed are around 1.735-1.745. which is below the 1.750 which is recommended. My concern was the "pressure". I am loading to just above the the starting loads with Benchmark powder and 55gr FMJBT with a cannelure. I have shot some loads that I made with the COL being 1.940 and out of 300 on 5 failed to fire, or eject.



 Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2014 01:25 PM
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You might have a couple of issues to resolve.

First the OAL and shorter necks.... I would stay as close as I could to the recommended 2.21 if possible and forgo the crimp groove on those cases that are too short. If neck tension is too light I would taper crimp them and not worry about the canneluer sticking out the case.

Some necks seem a little short but don't sound to be excessive. I don't think I would use any that are less than 1.735" however. With less neck to grip the bullet, you may start to see bullet push back during cycle loading. I definitely wouldn't seat the bullet deeper to crimp it, as like you said, pressure will climb. Longer bullets will put more lateral strain on the neck, so I might cull those cases and use them for lighter or shorter bullets.

Your misfire might be related or maybe not.

One thought that comes to mind is that whoever prepped that brass might have set the shoulder back too far, allowing the case to go too far in the chamber, creating a headspace problem and the FP is not hitting the primer enough to set it off.

Maybe the primers got contaminated and are duds

or it could be some other issue... not enough info.

Last edited on Mon Apr 28th, 2014 01:31 PM by Silvertip



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 Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2014 11:34 PM
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Rick56
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I did my reloading last night. I did 50 with the recommended 2.20 or around there and the other 100 I loaded to the cannelure or close too it. like I was saying the cases were not all at the 1.750. Most were a little longer. The COL was around 2.228-to 2.238. If I remember correctly the max was 2.250-60. I was reloading at the bottom end of the scale also.



 Posted: Sun May 18th, 2014 07:10 PM
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jib
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shastaboat wrote:
For an AR based rifle the OAL is controlled solely by the magazine length as Ruffian stated. Obviously some of you guys really don't shoot ARs.

The AR will shoot a round longer than the magazine will allow. My son, who competes with an AR, Shoots in excess of 100 rounds a week, fed one at a time, but not through a magazine, because they will not fit in a magazine. They are too long.

His is not a normal application, but the limitation on length is not the Magazine.



 Posted: Mon May 19th, 2014 04:24 PM
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shastaboat
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Then he's not really shooting an AR as designed.



 Posted: Mon May 19th, 2014 04:44 PM
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jib
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I can't argue with that.

His ultimate goal, which is likely not possible is to get 20 shots in the same hole at 600 meters. This too is not how the AR was intended.



 Posted: Mon May 19th, 2014 07:25 PM
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shastaboat
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AR's are inheritantly accurate but you son is dreaming even for a full on benchrest rifle.



 Posted: Tue May 20th, 2014 12:37 AM
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jib wrote:
His ultimate goal, which is likely not possible is to get 20 shots in the same hole at 600 meters.

Very good goal to have it will take him to the top of his game.
If you/he are capable of doing so please try to make it to the national matches at Camp Perry and see just how many folks are coming Really close to achieving that goal with an AR.
Many a 3" spotter there has Many Many 22caliber holes in it.

Last edited on Tue May 20th, 2014 12:40 AM by president100



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 Posted: Tue May 20th, 2014 04:37 AM
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jib
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shastaboat wrote:
AR's are inheritantly accurate but you son is dreaming even for a full on benchrest rifle.

Obviously! The goal of any competitor is to achieve a perfect score. I was simply explaining why someone would use an AR, as you described as being not as it was designed For a long range competitor's purposes, the limitation of an OAL based on the magazine dimensions is not valid. They need heavy (long) bullets. Someone stated the OAL was limited by the magazine dimensions. I was simply stating that this was not correct. This limits automatic feeding via the magazine, but the gun functions fine in bolt action mode.



 Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2014 10:00 PM
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hab
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I totally agree that magazine does not limit the OAL except for full semi-automatic operation.  We have put longer barrels on our AR's and enjoy shooting out to 750 yds, and have excellent results at 500yds with 77 grain matchkings.  Frankly I prefer having the bolt lock open on an empty magazine and hand feeding than using a bolt action.  With other shorter loads, we can enjoy our AR's using the magazine.



 Posted: Tue Sep 23rd, 2014 12:23 AM
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jib
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Yes, the 77's Sierra MK's will feed, but the 80's won't and yes, feeding through the magazine is a lot nicer!



 Posted: Mon Sep 29th, 2014 12:55 AM
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jib wrote: shastaboat wrote:
For an AR based rifle the OAL is controlled solely by the magazine length as Ruffian stated. Obviously some of you guys really don't shoot ARs.

The AR will shoot a round longer than the magazine will allow. My son, who competes with an AR, Shoots in excess of 100 rounds a week, fed one at a time, but not through a magazine, because they will not fit in a magazine. They are too long.

His is not a normal application, but the limitation on length is not the Magazine.

Every AR is different. Sorry but my PSA doesnt like them long and I have to really watch my ogives, more than the COL.  I reloaded a bunch of rounds to the COL in the book and found I needed to be shorter. They fit fine in the Mag.  and the BCG wouldn't fully close. I had to set the bullets deeper (.003) to make them flow. It all depends on the gun. 




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 Posted: Mon Sep 29th, 2014 01:10 AM
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jib
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I can believe that. What we load in 77 and 80 grain are long ogive spitzers.



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