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Annealing brass for my .300 Win MAG
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 Posted: Mon Jan 23rd, 2017 05:17 PM
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wcstacf
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Hello everyone,

I apologize for being absent from the forum for awhile. I took a new job last year that required a lot of traveling. Deer season is over and I am back in my old office and have time to reload now.

I am working on another project. BTW, thanks to people like Paul B, olyeller and others who have helped me out with reloading projects for my .270, .270 WSM, and .30-.30 rifles.

I am working on a load for my Remington 700 chambered in .300 Win Magnum. I am working up a recipe using 180 Grain Sierra Gameking Spitzer Boat Tails and Nosler Accubonds with Remington brass trimmed to 2.609, Win/Rem/CCI/Fed Magnum Primers and IMR 4831, 7977 and H4831SC to start. The COAL is .3.340 and all brass and bullets are sorted and weighed.

I am able to get multiple .5 and sub .5 inch groups at 100 yards with this rifle using a lower grain bullet and various recipes.

I transitioned to the 180 Grain bullet and the groups opened way up. My groups are so bad I am not going to post the results at this time.

The barrel was cleaned and inspected with no signs of copper fouling. I went over the gun and found no signs of anything being loose or out of adjustment. The trigger is set to three pounds and most of the current testing was done at an indoor range.

I thought I would try to anneal my brass to see if this helps. One thing that is common with this test is that that I started using brass that has been fired and resized four time. Before anyone asks, no the necks have not been turned on this brass and yes I am using a full length resizing die.

This is my first attempt at annealing so I spent a lot of time on different websites and watched many You Tube videos demonstrating the process. Here is the link to one website that I found to be the most helpful.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/annealing/

The brass has actually cooled down now and I am going to start reloading. I am crossing my fingers and have high confidence this helps. I will keep the group posted on my results. wish my luck and I did not over do it and blow up my gun.

Thanks

wcstacf



 Posted: Mon Jan 23rd, 2017 06:06 PM
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swampratt
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Not really hard to anneal and get them all the same.
Measure Neck ID and OD after sizing.
I like to brush the necks with a bore brush after annealing and after Resizing.

That 180gr bullet has a very long boat tail and short bearing surface for a 180 gr bullet.
It was my first bullet to use in my .308 Savage heavy barrel with 1:10 twist.

I went through almost 2 boxes of them trying to get them to group with different brass powder and primers.
2" groups were best I could do.

I really do not like that bullet.
178 A-max was way better as was the 175 nosler CC.

168 and 165 gr bullets were excellent the 165 game king HPBT was much better than the 165gr game king spitzer.

The HPBT has a much longer bearing surface.
To what that is worth.. if the annealing does nothing try a different bullet in 180 gr



 Posted: Mon Jan 23rd, 2017 07:06 PM
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Paul B
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I'm of the thought that playing with seating depth might help. :sofa: Maybe.
I wasn't too happy with results I got using 180 gr. bullets in my first .300 Win. Mag. so went with the 200 gr. Noslers and Speer Hot cores. Accuracy was superb. I get the same results in three out of four rifles in .300 Win. Mag. The only reason I don't say that out of the four I do have is I haven't shot anything out of that one yet. Three rifles are Ruger #1s, a "B" and two "S" models. The unfired one is a 200th Year of American liberty model.
The fourth rifle is a Winchester M70 push feed I got into cheap and is a tack driver.
If you want to stay with 180 gr. bullets though, try the Sierra Pro-hunter and play with seating depth. Then when you hit nirvana, drop back a grain and a half and try the Nosler partition working back up. In several of my rifles I can load Sierra bullets for practice, then switch to the Noslers for the hunt. Usually the same charge for both bullets.
The powder I use is WMR which is no longer available (long gone for roughly 15 years now) but I push the 200 gr. bullets very close to 2900 FPS with superb accuracy. (.50" to 1.0" depending on the rifle and my shooting.)
Paul B.
Paul B.



 Posted: Mon Jan 23rd, 2017 08:27 PM
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wcstacf
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Gentlemen,

I did experiment with the COAL and the result was the same. I finished reloading the brass before I saw your replies.

I did not measure the neck but I did clean the interior of the necks. I do that anytime I do something to the neck. I do not know if it is necessary but it helps relieve any doubt of foreign matter being stuck to it.

If anything it made the cases easier to trim and to set the bullet.

I do not know if that means anything, but we will know soon.


I will keep the thread updated.

BTW

I am shooting a 180 Grain Sierra Gameking Spitzer Boat Tail #2160 in a Remington case, fired 4 times, trimmed 4 times, case length, 2.610; case wt: 126.5-128.0; bullet wt: 179.8 grains with 68.2 grains of H4831SC and 70.7 Grains of H4831SC with Rem (M) and Win (M) primers.

Thanks

wcstacf



 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2017 01:24 PM
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SavageShooter
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74.5gr of H4831 in my 300 WM using the exact same bullet and I'm getting sub MoA @ 100 yards. For what its worth...

Of course you'll want to work up to that load in your own rifle.



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 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2017 04:12 PM
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olyeller
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Will have to defer to the others on this one. I do not load 300WINMag or the 180GK.
I've had good luck with the 180Partition in '06, FWIW.

Were I in your shoes, I might try one of the 4350's and/or Hybrid 100V before I gave up on the 180gr boat-tails.



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 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2017 09:32 PM
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wcstacf
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Hello olyeller,

Oh I am not giving up on the 180's. In fact I had good results with IMR 4350 with this gun and a lighter bullet.



 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2017 09:34 PM
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wcstacf
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Savage,

That is interesting you are running it that high. My Sierra data indicates that 70.7 is the max load.

Thanks

wcstacf



 Posted: Wed Jan 25th, 2017 11:39 AM
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SavageShooter
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wcstacf,

Another reason to own multiple books of load data. Hodgdon's own site lists max somewhere in the low 70's as well. That load is out of the Lyman #49 which lists max load at 76.0 g. This is why it's important to start low and work up looking for signs of pressure.



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 Posted: Wed Jan 25th, 2017 06:40 PM
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HighBC
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I recently ran some developments for a brand new 700 chambered in 300 WM. I didn't run a bunch of different bullets, but I did run several powders which eventually got me the accuracy I was searching for. This was for a friends elk hunt, so bullet choice was Speer Hot Core's, 165 gr & 180's.

I turned necks just enough to clean them up.

Annealed the brass following each firing, those dog gone 300 WM's have such short necks so I didn't want to prematurely lose any to splitting.

All Winchester brass.

Varied distances off the lands beginning with just off, @ .010" and adjusted in .010" increments once best powder charge had been identified.

I started with IMR-7828 first, tried both bullet weights but I just couldn't get acceptable accuracy, 2" was about it.

I then ran with IMR-4350, which has been an old stand by powder for me in the 300 WM and various other chamberings, and it actually shot pretty darn well with both bullets, close to an inch.

Next was RL22 and right off the bat I could see some potential. I worked it up at .010" off the lands and the group just kept getting better and better as I approached the top of the table until it was shooting consistent groups between 1/2" and 3/4", I have this load documented for future reference, ended up going with 76.1 grs. despite a couple lower charges were very similar regarding accuracy. That was with the 165 gr Hot Core.

I then started the 180 development and it performed very similarly with groups under an inch also cooperated up to almost max charge and at a couple lighter charge nodes as was experienced with the 165's..

I didn't get into the 200 gr. bullets though, but I'd bet they would have cooperated.

HBC



 Posted: Sat Feb 4th, 2017 05:59 PM
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wcstacf
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Okay,

I finished this current round of testing with my .300 Win Mag after annealing the brass. Remember this is my first go at annealing and the verdict is it solved the problem by giving my tighter shot groups.

I was using Remington brass, weighing between 126.5-128.0 grains, trimmed to 2.610 with a COAL of 3.350 using 68.2 and 70.7 grains of H4831SC, with a Sierra Spitzer Boat Tail #2160, (IAW Sierra Load Data), in Rem, Win, CCI and Fed Mag primers. All brass was weighed and the bullets were coming in a 179.9 grains.

Before I started I was getting large groups of over six inches. More times than not I would have a sub one inch two shot group with a flyer taking out to 4, 5 or six inches.

I got a torch, some Templiq 750 and turned the brass using my drill and started annealing the brass. Here are the results at 100 yards.

68.2 grains H4831SC, Rem (M) primer: .780
70.7 grains H4831SC, Rem (M) primer: 1.662

68.2 grains H4831SC, Win (M) primer: 3.692, you got me here
70.7 grains H4831SC, Win (M) primer: 1.312

68.2 grains H4831SC, CCI (M) primer: 1.621
70.7 grains H4832SC, CCI (M) primer: 1.122

68.2 grains H4831SC, Fed (M) primer: 1.195
70.7 grains H4832SC, Fed (M) primer: 1.365

Not the greatest, but much better than before. But this makes a believer out of me that annealing your brass can help. Not always the answer to your problem but just another option for you to try if you have never done it. This is my first time at annealing brass and have more to learn.

I will keep experimenting with other recipes. I am going to start using some RE-22 and the new IMR Enduron powders next.

Have a good one

wcstacf

I will keep yu working with it



 Posted: Sat Feb 4th, 2017 06:45 PM
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Rockydog



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Are you headspacing your brass on the shoulder or on the belt? RD



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 Posted: Sun Feb 5th, 2017 03:56 PM
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wcstacf
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Rockydog,

Good morning, it has been awhile since we chatted. I am headspacing off the belt as I was instructed to do for the belted magnum cartridges. Let me know if I am doing something wrong.

Thanks

wcstacf



 Posted: Sun Feb 5th, 2017 04:31 PM
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Rockydog



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wcstacf, If it's accuracy that you seek you might try headspacing off of the shoulder. If you are only using brass fired in your gun just back your FL sizing die off a quarter turn so that it doesn't push the shoulder back upon resizing. At some point after a few firings it may get though to chamber. At that point just turn the die in enough to bump the shoulder back a couple thousands.

The problem you might face with this is that the very base above the belt might not resize enough to allow chambering. Kind of a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. However, If it does make an accuracy difference that you can't live without there is a die out there that fixes that problem too. It's not cheap. Some guys say it's a solution for a problem that doesn't exist, others say it's the clear checker. Go here: http://larrywillis.com/ and scroll down. RD



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 Posted: Sun Feb 5th, 2017 04:38 PM
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wcstacf
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Rockydog,

Thank you very much. That is some very useful information. I am using brass that is used only in my gun. I am not having issues with chambering the brass. However, it is something I may use for my .270 WSM. I have had problems chambering some reloads for that gun. The rounds for that gun are always FL sized.

Thank you very much.

wcstacf



 Posted: Thu Mar 2nd, 2017 02:47 PM
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Russ Clagett

 

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By resizing full length you could be bumping that shoulder back several thousandths each time which can affect accuracy negatively. It will also eat your brass and it will not last long stretching each time you fire it.

In all my magnums I neck size only, bumping the shoulder only when it's needed in order to chamber..and the difference is amazing.

Larry's die is the bomb. Over time a small bulge will develop just above the belt and the case will no longer chamber, but this die resizes that exact spot correctly so the brass will last much longer...I have saved LOTS of money on brass since I have been using it.



 Posted: Thu Mar 2nd, 2017 03:42 PM
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woodsman777



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wcstacf wrote: Rockydog,

Good morning, it has been awhile since we chatted. I am headspacing off the belt as I was instructed to do for the belted magnum cartridges. Let me know if I am doing something wrong.

Thanks

wcstacf

I have reloaded the 300WM for a long time and have never headspaced off of the belt, I've always headspaced off of the shoulder and never had an issue with it.
My gun will shoot 180's just fine, however I pretty much only shoot heavy for caliber bullets in that gun now 210's up to 230's and save the 180's for 308 & 30-06



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 Posted: Thu Mar 2nd, 2017 08:40 PM
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Paul B
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Me too. :thumbs: My pet load for all my .300 Win. Mags is either the 200 gr. Speer Hot Core or 200 gr. Nosler Partition. Flat smacked down a cow elk about ten years ago at 530 yards laser measured. One shot, bang flop. All that shoulder bruising the several months prior to the hunt paid off with that shot. I figure if I'n gonna shoot a magnum, might as well go with a heavier bullet as well.:wink:
Paul B.



 Posted: Thu Mar 2nd, 2017 11:34 PM
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gahandloader
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I get great results from a sporter weight barrel charging 72.5 grains of IMR 4831 over 180 Noslers, full length resizing with RCBS dies. Start much lower that load because it is over max in some manuals and may be unsafe in your gun.

Last edited on Thu Mar 2nd, 2017 11:35 PM by gahandloader



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 Posted: Fri Mar 3rd, 2017 12:00 AM
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A large percentage of my rifle reloading is for belted magnums. IMHO Larry Willis's belted magnum collet body die is the greatest thing since peanut butter. Yes, it's a little bit pricey but this is a very low volume item. Probably machined one at a time, IMHO it's a quality die well worth the cost.



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